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What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

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abel
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What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby abel » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:01 am

I'm considering buying a foil kite for Hfoiling in the 6-10 wind range, but I'm reluctant because worried about dipping it the drink.
I'm thinking of a criterion to go for a session or not given the lowest lulls during the last 10-15 minutes.
Lets say that the lowest lull during the last 10 minutes was 4 knots for about one minute.

Will the last generation foils kites stay in the air or fall?

early bird2
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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby early bird2 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:55 am

I would say the Ultra light foil kite version will stay in the air no problem. You might have to keep the kite in movement if regular canopy material . Very light air equal Ultra Light for me . Also , with the Ultra light your chances to relaunch the kite in such light air are way better .

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby queneseb » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:24 pm

for sure.. but you also need a big size kite and keep it in movement

Mossy 757
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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby Mossy 757 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:52 pm

abel wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:01 am
Lets say that the lowest lull during the last 10 minutes was 4 knots for about one minute. Will the last generation foils kites stay in the air or fall?
If you're up and riding on your high end carbon fiber hydrofoil that's ultra efficient and you're on a point of sail that keeps the kite well powered, yes, 4 knots is doable.

If you're in the water 15m away from your board getting pulled with the current in the same direction as the wind while light onshore waves push you under the kite...you're dead meat.

For the best riders, the answer to this question has been "yes" since the original Chrono. The improvements since then have not really changed whether the kites work in light wind but have widened the margin of error during "momentary lapses of expertise." :wink:

I shared your fears before buying my first foil, my solution was to buy a $900 15m Elf Joker5 that had been thoroughly trashed. I tuned it up, replaced some bridle parts, and got a full year of use out of it where I was entirely unconcerned with whether it blew up or not. After getting the hang of things I started buying newer and better foils and never looked back.

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:35 pm

On that minimum wind game, the Concept'air Pulsion is for sure the best of all, thanks to extreme light cloth and moderate Aspect Ratios to work it efficiently. For example far better than my Elf Jocker 5 , but also Chrono v1, significantly better than the Sonic2 according to an expert riders that owns both , even my previous FS speed4 Lotus needs more wind, and bleive it or not even better than single skin FS peak according to a foil kite teacher that made back-to-back tests.

Advising knots numbers is difficult in such wind ranges, as it depends on how and where you measure the wind: e.g. I can raise my Pulsion 15m ultralight in the air on the beach without walking backward when my two wind meters shows 0 (but it is not obviously).

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby windrider1 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:18 pm

All modern day race foils will stay up no problems in 6knts. however 4 knts u will need to pay some attention and input to the kite. in those winds its better to ger an ultralight type fabric kite. but in my experience kiting in lulls of less than 6knts is just asking for problems and a swim in . most times the wind will die at any moment . I can go from 6knts and up with a light type 18m racekite and twintip . so i stick to tht as my minimum. but a hydrofoil probally can do it with a 14 or 15 m kite .

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby joriws » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:30 pm

Here is an example how Flysurfer closed cell foils (Sonic v1 15m and Speed4 8m dlx) stays airborne in puff (2-4kn sub freezing air), kites could fly without skating after initial skate-fill but we played with 360 wind windows etc that's why you see a lot of skating in below video. As a comparision Ozone Frenzy 5m open cell (red kite at background) could not fly which proves the light wind.

phpBB [video]

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby coffeeking » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:44 am

It's always the lulls that get you, you're right. I could only just get my 12.speed 5 to stay up in 6ish knots by swimming upwind.

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby evan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 pm

Speed 5 is one of the heaviest foikkites out there, my Peter Lynn Aero 20m weighs with 2.9kg only 160gram more compared to the 12m speed at 2.74kg.

Flew it only on 13m lines max for racing, but even that gets as low as 6kn before the power spike is not enough to get going anymore. Imagine what 30m lines would do..... Sadly stable 4-6kn conditions are extremely rare, it is mostly completely windless, too instable or rideable on short lines here in the Netherlands so no change to test the low-end of the 20m on long lines yet.

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Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby alexrider » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:47 am

evan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 pm
..... Sadly stable 4-6kn conditions are extremely rare....
That's a good remark. And in sub-6 knots wind, the current becomes an important factor in the perceived wind. That's why for freeride hydrofoiling I wouldn't take a 18+ size kite for the minumum winds the brand claims it can fly.
Flysurfer's specs give min wind speed for hydrofoiling: 5 knots for the 15 RACE, 4 for the 18 and 3 (!) for the 21. Kites with the same weight vs projected area ratio should achieve the same.
Last edited by alexrider on Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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