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Directional footstraps ?

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Flyboy
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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:55 pm

Double post again (hit the "quote" icon instead of the "edit" :oops: )

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby knotwindy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Seems to me if you are constantly needed in to pull up on your front foot for trim control, one of your straps is to far forward which puts your center of gravity too far forward. Try riding the board strapless for a while and see where your feet end up to balance your weight 50/50. Or not......

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:06 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:09 pm
Seems to me if you are constantly needed in to pull up on your front foot for trim control, one of your straps is to far forward which puts your center of gravity too far forward. Try riding the board strapless for a while and see where your feet end up to balance your weight 50/50. Or not......

Agree, it seems a bit odd that your foot is hardly balanced and relaxed at any time Flyboy ?

Of course it could be on purpose, but otherwise I would say that both feet usually stand more firmly and relaxed onto the surface (at about the same points as when strapless), and only engage the straps in radical maneuvers and aerials :roll:

I have also seen in friends videos, that the "toes" get lifted occasionally in the front strap - but this is when engaging full lean back cutback pressure hard into the lip, or off the lip - and not continously when riding.

I dont know, but as knotwindy, noticed this too as the very first.

He could be spot on, straps too far forward so you kinda roll on the board lengthwise, thus having to compensate lifting in the strap ?
Have you tried with further rear straps ?
Sometimes it is only one inch that changes from off, to perfect.

Could be very wrong too of course...

8) Peter

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby purdyd » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 am

Flyboy wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:33 pm
My board is not wide (4'10" x 18") & my feet aren't small.

Essentially the straps DO work the same, but as the two videos show, the upper body wants to open up in the direction of board travel - having to place the foot at right angles to the centre-line of the board creates an awkward body position with the front leg twisted across the direction of travel & puts stress on the ankle. This is less of an issue when actually surfing on the wave, but in practice, not that much time is spent actually on the wave. I notice that tow-in surfers do not use an inline strap, but a strap on angle, presumably to allow better control of the board.

Also, although you would think that it would be necessary to keep weight on the front foot, my video shows that my big toe is constantly curling up, lifting against the strap, to trim the board - as in windsurfing. I know that when I am riding strapless I have to concentrate on a significantly different weighting & stance.
Even with a single strap the front foot is at an angle. One thing the single strap does is allow you to get over the center line. Which is why on the tow in surfers where they angle the front strap, it is normally in the middle.

Look I get the two front straps and I do not know why more board makers don’t offer it, it doesn’t work for me and most people who do have straps, run a single front.

I think the toe is curling because you are putting weight on the heel of the front foot and also shifting you weight back and forth. The fact that the toes comes down means you aren’t really riding totally on the back foot.

I tried to watch your video but it seems to take me to my home page and not your video.

What I found after riding strapless for awhile was I got better low end from straps because I could put more energy into the board pumping it. ye ole windsurfing trick.

Another thing from windsurfing is using the nsi dual density pads. I stopped by in hood river this summer and ordered a custom pair and replaced the factory pads.

Anyway, it is all good and there are a lot of options.

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:50 am

purdyd wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 am
Even with a single strap the front foot is at an angle. One thing the single strap does is allow you to get over the center line. Which is why on the tow in surfers where they angle the front strap, it is normally in the middle.
Yes, that's true - you can't get over the centre line in the same way. However, tow boards do tend to be very narrow. But with an angled strap on the centre line the foot is still not positioned at right angles to the centre line & presumably this is because it makes for a more balanced, comfortable riding position. Personally, I find being off the centre line on my board only makes a marginal difference because the back foot (for which I don't use a strap) is able to compensate for it. Whereas, not having to twist the front ankle makes for a much more comfortable feeling riding position for all the times when you are not actually bottom turning on a wave.
purdyd wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 am
Look I get the two front straps and I do not know why more board makers don’t offer it, it doesn’t work for me and most people who do have straps, run a single front.
I think that the reason most board makers do not offer the option of two front straps is because the straps came out of familiarity with TT layout. Most people run a single front strap because ... most board makers do not offer the option of two front straps, so they have never had the opportunity to try it. When I got this board (which had been built with multiple inserts) 8 years ago, I immediately felt at home on it. It reminded me of windsurfing because I was able to "ride the fin" with more weight on the back foot, reducing the wetted surface etc. The design of the board - very small & flattish rockered is very different from most surfboards - somewhat like an old school (ca. 2003) directional, but more surfy. In windsurfing terms it is like an old wave-slalom design rather than a straight-out (slower) wave design.
purdyd wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 am
I think the toe is curling because you are putting weight on the heel of the front foot and also shifting you weight back and forth. The fact that the toes comes down means you aren’t really riding totally on the back foot.
Yes. That's the point - there's constant micro-adjustments to body position & the trim of the board. It's got nothing to do with the straps being too far forward (which honestly, makes no sense to me). When you're riding strapless you're obliged to keep more weight over the front foot at all times. With straps you can bounce over chop without having to bear down on your front foot. It's one of the reasons why a powered up windsurfer is always going to be faster in chop than a kitesurfer (especially a strapless kitesurfer). [/quote]
purdyd wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:46 am
What I found after riding strapless for awhile was I got better low end from straps because I could put more energy into the board pumping it. ye ole windsurfing trick.
Exactly. I spent several months riding strapless last year, but discovered when I went back to the straps I was able to coax more performance out of the low end (& the high end) of the board. This is not to say that very skilled strapless riders aren't able to do amazing things strapless & if you have great, consistent, clean waves riding strapless offers an ideal experience.

What I am really saying, is that rockered wave designs are not optimal for all-round riding, but they have become the norm for directional boards, even though most people spend most of the time riding choppy water & sloppy waves. It's been a puzzle to me why board manufacturers don't offer more of a "free-ride" directional board. The closest thing I have seen to that, mass-produced, is the North Nugget, but the Nugget is (IMO) unnecessarily large (wide), very flat & oriented more to low wind conditions. I guess modern parallel rail design boards have moved significantly in the direction I'm describing. The strap thing is a bit of an aside - I think if more people had the opportunity to try it (by providing boards with extra inserts) I believe they would like it. :)

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:20 pm

I do not agree, of course just different opinions, but would explain why I think almost 100 % of riders use a different setup, the setup used by custom shapers as well as big brands.

But firstly I am in doubt now, are we not talking about a board for waves Flyboy ?
As when you write "riding the fins" something just seems wrong, as fins on a waveboard is not for being ridden flat, but solely for surfing - size and position and everything.
So "riding the fins" ? Not so much, or not at all IMO.

The last many years there has been two totally different ways in terms of waveboards, the short narrow square plank versus the classic surfboard style.
I will only discuss the classic ones here, both types are awesome but extremely different.

Getting over the centerline - well, when riding upwind I slide my foot out so it is quite diagonal and to windward (boards ARE wider today than just a few years back).
But can not ride waves well if it is left there, not even if rear foot to leeward.
Also, if the front strap is set up too tight (it happens), so my foot is more windward - riding waves does not work well at all.
Board will become bouncy in bottom turns, the smooth driving "inward" feel will be lost, simply not balanced as it should.


No, it is not because they origin from TTs, the two straps.
Most brands has been around raceboards too, always three or even four straps.
Today they all make hydrofoils instead, and these are also three straps the majority of them, also freeride (as here you dont have to be over the center because you dont use the edges when riding waves) .
A few still prefer 2 straps here though, as so used to this from waveboards, so gives the best feel for some, personal likings.


Regarding strap position - IMO the front position on a waveboard is the most important whatsoever, it is the power center and the full driving point everything happens around.
Meaning, you can NOT just stand further forward with your front and further rear with your back foot, or further rear with your front and more forward with your rear foot.
Both will be wrong - in the first scenario you will get this wrong feeling of not being balanced, having to tug the front strap with toes, feeling like you wobble around the rocker line instead of a firm stance and smooth ride.
In the second scenario, you will lose glide hugely when on the wave, apart from not being able to push sufficiently with your rear foot when hitting hard.


Brands are actually offering a huge range of boards, most or all of them adapted to the what many will call "shitty" conditions most of us got.
So they are bigger or wider or less rockered etc etc - hardly and real waveboards left.
Which is fine, as so few got these conditions.
So disagree - I see a wide palette offered by most, and sometimes difficult to find a good full-on waveboard, which is fine, as almost none of us got such perfect conditions anyways.
I believe, and can see, that brands are offereing what most of us users want - it is as simple as that, and has been for years :rollgrin:

It is fine to be different and have a different liking - but I honestly see they make the very boards we like the most, as kitesurfers, and nothing but that.
It is their only way of surviving, which is great for us :D


But above is not the topic - topic was about which directional footstraps we like and dont like, so lets get back to this please.

8) Peter

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby PullStrings » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:35 pm

I like North footstraps because of their soft flexzone edges plus their width is perfect for added leverage in turns & edging

BTW IMO w/ footstraps you can give yourself a better midsection and leg workout since you can carry a bigger size kite ....do huge jumps & transitions at every turn if that's what you like

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby zerogee_ca » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Dakine Primo and the JP are nice basic cushy straps.

But really like the North straps now. Good combo of padding and width for support that still lets me twist my foot easily without binding up my toes like wide or asymetrical straps can. Still lets me center my rear foot across the board. The Norths are adjustable to allow for cold water boots. NSI makes a similar shaped one but with a looser padding cover.

I set up the front strap wide and loose to allow for foot twist. Back strap normal.

I use pieces of pool noodle shoved into the strap during storage and transport to hold the straps form. Anti crush protection.

Replacing straps when padding /cover wears keeps the hard bits in the footstrap from chewing away at your feet.

I only use straps when I have to wear boots. I feel a lack of control riding strapless with boots. Can't stand it!

How about this setup? Huh? Jibemaster...
phpBB [video]


And whatever happened to this thing??
phpBB [video]

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Re: Directional footstraps ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:16 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:13 pm
Would start a seperate thread, as the other thread was apparently about TT straps, which is very different to straps for waveboards/raceboards/hydrofoils/skimboards, or any other directional.

My personal favourite is the Dakine Supremo (or Primo), the classic windsurf strap, never collapses, easy to get in/out, lasts quite long, and you dont get blisters.

Image

I know some who dont like this very strap, so apparently very personal.


I have also used the Dakine x-lace wave strap.

Image

I dont like it...
You have to wiggle your feet into this one, meaning whenever you tack or jibe or take your rear foot in/out - you are wasting time and get annoyed.
Also, it can not be set very big, so can not be used with boots, or bigger feet.

How often do you have to trim your straps ?
Two or four times per year is my typical - going from summer to winter and back, and maybe twice again if you take a wintervacation to a warm spot like CapeTown or similar.
So it does not have to be easy, unless you have a rental board business :wink:

Some like the x-lace wave though.


Apart from the Dakine Primo, I also use the JP strap:

Image

Works quite well, BUT, it is too hard at the ends, so I find they gnaw at the feet if you ride with feet twisted in the strap, so not perfect.


Occasionally I have used the North Yellow ones (they made the same in white too the year before or after):

Image

Quite comfortable and relatively easy to get fast in/out, and soft.
But because they are wider, it is still slower than the Primos.
And as I recall, they can not be adjusted to boots either.


I have just ordered two sets of straps I havent used before, to find out how they work:

The Dakine Tyrant

Image


And the Drake MKIV (can anyone tell what the difference is from MKIV to MKV ?)

Image

Snip...

8) Peter


It has been a while now - I have gotten both the Tyrant and the Drake straps and ridden a lot.

Tyrant is a big strong strap, like an oversized Russian tank !
Works really well though, and comfy, fits feet perfectly in size - just seems like overkill in terms of being strong :roll:


The JP straps are too hard on your feet when angled, I have abandoned these again and gone back to Dakine Primo's and the Drake MK's.

The Drake straps are really good, stand up well but a tad softer than the Primos, and comfortable.

Definitely my two favourites :thumb:

Was about to respond to your thread SpaceRacer - when I found this thread only some months old so would continue here :naughty:

8) Peter


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