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concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

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Matteo V
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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:58 pm

knot windy wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:04 pm
@ Matteo V
.....There has to be an amount that causes damage. Do you or does anybody know how much that is? And what external environment/concentration and time frame might lead to that level? Is it known that the levels in the seas are safe or is it just a hope?

Also, I am new to kiting, should I just buy gear off eBay?
More on topic, but leaving the realm of common knowledge that I feel ingestion vs external radiation should be contained within. The below explanation will make no sense unless you do some simple google research for yourself. If you are not willing to go that far, then all you need to know is the previously mentioned science.

A good place to start getting deeper in this is by the reader looking up what LD50 means. And subsequently LD10, LD20, or LD100.

knotwindy's question could be answered by finding the LD100 level of a seawater borne contact radioactive level. The simple answer is there is no way to get an (immediate) LD100 less than (guessing, for an example) 100m away from the reactor core at Fukushima. However I would never get into water with a LD50. Nor would I get into water with a LD10. Nor would I get into water with an LD.01!. For me to get into water and go swimming, you need to get the LD(??) a few times less than the likelihood of being attacked, AND killed by a shark.

However, pinning down the LD(??) of swimming in the water on the Oregon coast is likely to be so small that no one could ever give you even a rough estimate. The primary effect of radiation exposure is the chromosomal damage that it causes, along with some shorter term effects on certain organs and glands in the human body. This is a long term issue very unlikely to result in near term death. However, what South Korea is concerned with regarding the importation of contaminated fish, is the increase in primarily cancer rates among those who ingest those fish. While many people may consume contaminated fish and never live long enough to die of cancer caused by this contaminated fish, there will be some who will. Thus the South Korean health care system will face a large future increase in expenditures on the treatment of these cancers.

In the end you are rolling the dice. Taking a chance when driving to work every morning sees you rolling a 13,000 sided dice (lifetime, not every trip). Being overweight sees you rolling a pretty high number sided dice too (dying of obesity related future health issues). Being an airline pilot has you rolling a dice on the additional radiation you get at altitude, and whether it eventually causes you to get cancer.

The dice is pretty big on swimming in the ocean that you get cancer from particles in skin contact, or via accidental ingestion.

The dice is much smaller than swimming, for getting cancer from ingestion of fish which concentrate those radioactive particles via the food chain.

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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:13 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:28 pm
...
Would you agree that this is sufficient motivation for the opposition to freedom of speech that we see growing in western society?

What is this forum about???? Kiting???? Trolling?????
Freedom of speech/expression is absolutely necessary and vital.
But “don’t let anyone think their ignorance is somehow equal to one’s knowledge”. Also there are theories and beliefs and there are facts

The forum is about kiting.
This thread is fearmongering propaganda and a troll feast.

Matteo V
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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:19 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:13 pm

......This thread is fearmongering propaganda and a troll feast.
No, I would say that lots of readers are learning, or relearning high school physics. True, this could induce some fear in susceptible mentalities. Knowing the odds, or even that there are odds, always does.

What specifically has you triggered about this subject?

Matteo V
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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:25 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:13 pm

But “don’t let anyone think their ignorance is somehow equal to one’s knowledge”.
And, ignorance is the catalyst for knowledge. Without ignorance being challenged, we would not have knowledge.

Assuming your knowledge is correct and absolute, is always more destructive than simply being ignorant.

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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Hugh2 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:52 am

Really? There are some things that are so clear cut that ignorance of them is harmful.

For example, the guy claims to be a novice kiter, so lets just let his ignorance rule the day and advise him to buy a kite off EBay and go fly it on a windy day. Darwin Award candidate.

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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby jakemoore » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:08 am

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:13 pm
This thread is fearmongering propaganda and a troll feast.
That sounds wonderful!! [/sarc]

Heres an item for anybody who's concerned.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Geiger-Counter ... SwOMdZWgfM

Just hook it onto your PFD next to the flare gun and reel leash.

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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Huib » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:06 pm

There is many very concerning information on the internet except the MSM.
phpBB [video]

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LiquidXtasy
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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby LiquidXtasy » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:46 pm

Image

Nah, the media says it's safe, they would never lie to the public, by the way has anyone seen my snorkeling gear? :roll:

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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Huib » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:49 pm

The dumping of highly radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean constitutes a potential trigger to a process of global radioactive contamination. Radioactive elements have not only been detected in the food chain in Japan, radioactive rain water has been recorded in California
https://www.globalresearch.ca/fukushima ... tion/28870

Matteo V
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Re: concerning of nuclear radiation ocean surround from japan

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:15 pm

Hugh2 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:52 am
Really? There are some things that are so clear cut that ignorance of them is harmful.

For example, the guy claims to be a novice kiter, so lets just let his ignorance rule the day and advise him to buy a kite off EBay and go fly it on a windy day. Darwin Award candidate.
Seems to me that is how kiting started out. Did the Legaignoux brothers bother to get lessons when they invented the first tube kite? And no, I am not advocating for your example being smart. Your example is a straw man.

Here are some more straw man arguments for you to use.

1. For example, the guy that decides to drive backwards down the freeway at 120kph. Darwin Award candidate.
2. For example, the guy that decides to "try" meth. Darwin Award candidate.
3. For example, the guy who announces he is going to use a 12m kite on a day when other kiters are rigging down because they cannot handle their 8m's. Darwin Award candidate.

In the above three examples and in yours, there is clear and easily available knowledge for "the guy" to at least get a hint that he will soon become a "Darwin Award candidate". Choosing to not research, or seek advice, is his problem. Ignorance here is not the cause of his downfall, but rather his choices.

To resolve your confusion -

Ignorance is the state of mind that holds incorrect assumptions. Occasionally people must use the ignorant ideas they have available to them. Certain situations arise where there is no time for research, advice, or peer review. Sometimes, as in the Legaignoux example, experimentation must lead to failure in order to eventually gain success.

Your example is of willful ignorance, or rather stupidity. Any potential beginner kiter is at least somewhat aware there is knowledge beyond their level out there. Refusing to seek this knowledge, or at least some portion thereof, is beyond the scope of ignorance.

Ignorance DOES NOT mean stupidity or poor decision making. Most of the previous discussion has simply been a review of the things almost all of us were taught in high school physics. I did not choose to forget many of those things. I just did, and so did lots of others here and in every day life. But nearly all of us are aware that we have forgot something(s) in the past. So, in our acknowledgment of our ignorance, we seek to remedy that ignorance. Often times this leads to the acquisition of knowledge that we may not have fully understood in the past. Thus out of our ignorance, we come to learn more than we would have without acknowledging that ignorance.

No one here is making a stupid decision by getting into the Pacific Ocean. With the "Official Reports" and "media" saying there is nothing wrong, that may be the only information available to kiters and other ocean users. So decisions are made based on that. Or you can dig a little deeper and realize that there is a minuscule chance that ocean contact could increase your risk for a deadly desease in the future. But the risk is tiny. If you want to increase that risk to very low, consume the "top of the food chain" seafood. Still, you could have a higher chance of dying in a car wreck.


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