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Marginal wind kites ?

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Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:42 pm

Frank Rosin wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:20 pm
My concern is less that the kite is falling out of the sky (of course it needs to be light and stable), but more that getting up and going is not the easiest thing to achieve when really pushing the low end. Every time there is the risk that it might not be successful again.
IMO with enough kite area and line length you can "always" solve that point. That is why I upgraded my Pulsion 12m to 15m and even 18m lately (but with my 60kg I am thinking to sell it and go back to 15m because my home spot beach is too narrow for longer lines)

Frank Rosin
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Frank Rosin » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:49 pm

My comment is mostly regarding the 21m R1 which I love on 12m lines.
I tried it on 17m lines which makes getting up and going easier for sure, but I do not like it much overall.
I may try 14m lines next when 12m give me issues to get going.
But anyways, when pushing the limits every time you need to get going again is a risk.
Talking only about the absolute low end here of course.

Cheers,
Frank
www.famousfrank.com

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Horst Sergio » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:37 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:40 pm
... might be able to compare race versus freeride UL foil kites.

Which kites seem to work the best in marginal wind for foiling ?

What are the experiences today ? Any others not mentioned ?

8) PF
As you said I also think it is a compromise between race and freeride UL foil kite abilities everybody has to choose for himself as well as line lenght which has to fit to riding manuever style.


Myself I normaly ride
- a SonicRace 11 m² with about 16 m lines when it is low but stable to be still able to boost to the max.
- a Sonic2 9 m² with about 17 m lines when wind is more difficult and the risk is higher to swim, but both with a lot of relaunch experience with foils.

- for everybody else I would recommend to give the FS Soul or the lecca-lecca MINIMA a try as they are not relevant worse for lowest end but so much more accessible if something goes wrong. Still too many try to ride the most hard core race kites, but on the end of the day they are swiming more than everybody else, instead of having fun in the low end:

phpBB [video]


http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2399859

In difficult condition no doupt I would keep may 2700 € SonicRace in the bag and would use a 999 € MINIMA to have fun.

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Ulrik
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Ulrik » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:09 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:04 pm
Thanks Seb for the 5.2 clarification on Kitech FRS. We had another contradictory info in march : Flat / Proj. Area 9.0 / 7.12 m2 , AR 5.0 , Weight kite with speed system and lines: 1950 g
Maybe AR is depending on size ?
Yes I think AR changes with size.
This is the specs I got from Attila ( kitedesigner/owner):
Flat / Proj. Area 12.0 / 9.65 m2
AR 5.2
Nr of Cells: 31
W Span: 7.9 m
Center Chord: 1.83 m
Tip Chord: 0.77 m
Weight kite with speed system and lines: 2100 g
Canopy material: Dominico D30

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:22 pm

There is a paradox here - as racers want light kites that can widthstand some abuse (max power), and many choose to buy new as they wear fast by this powered use.

Whereas freeriders often want kites that can take some abuse, and last for years as they are pricy.

The first group want quite light (not superlight) kites, thin bridles and lines and high AR, and relaunch not important.

The last group want tougher kites that turns and handles better, meaning heavier kites (stronger cloth), thicker/easier bridles and lines, and lower AR, and the ability to be on the water longer without taking in water, on the cost of some weight.

Very opposite goals.

The last group has been how foilkites have been designed for years earlier, for TT use mainly.
Then the hydrofoilers took the light high performance kites from snowkiting (with paragliding experience some of them) out to the water for racing where they worked pretty perfect and now has been evolved to max race performance and still ok handling.


Above very different targets are now a bit closer, as there are a market for marginal wind hydrofoiling - where a mix of wishes from both groups are present.


I would like a foilkite not too high AR so it turns faster and dont fold, but still sufficiently high to give the powerspike on long lines without needing an 18 or 21 m2, and made from say 27/27 g/m2 cloth (or 27/32), as I would only use it when sub 7 knots anyways, so it wont get worn in the air (maybe when swimming and rescueing though, I know).

Kitech FreeRS is 38 g/m2 std but can be made with 32 or 27 also.
Lecca Lecca Minima is 41 g/m2 (but maybe lighter as less cells).
Aeros are 32 g/m2 standard, but one can also get 27 g/m2 in combination, or solely both top/bottom if one dares.
Conceptair Pulsion can be in standard 40/38 g/m2 or 32 or 27 and combinations I think, again, if one dares.

Also goes for the inner clothing, they can be std or light or superlight - if one dares :roll:


Most freeriders want a light foilkite that got a big windrange, thus medium or standard cloth would be perfect.
Personally I dont need windrange at all as I can go with a tubekite in 6-7 knots, so it would be to cover the wind below that only - thus I might dare to use 27 g/m2 all over :naughty:

Three different groups: Racers, Freeriders, Freeride extremists.

8) Peter
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Regis-de-giens
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Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:39 pm

The art of synthesis !
First time I am enclosed in a extremist group but I like it ! :heartface:
Thanks Peter.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:20 pm

Interesting how things change, now i never ride a smaller kite then 17m race kite in less then 12 knots. One year ago i was super happy on a 8m tube in 12 knots.

Texaskiter
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Texaskiter » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:58 am

Horst- I can only chuckle at how good you are! Normal mortals just don’t do these things. And you sawed off your stabilizer just to make sure no one copies you! You amaze me.

tomtom
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby tomtom » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Im still at 8m tube in 12knts phase, but nevertheless my searching for ultimate marginal to decent wind kite is finaly over :)

http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2400060&p=1021106

Séb
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Séb » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:43 pm

tomtom wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:07 pm
Im still at 8m tube in 12knts phase, but nevertheless my searching for ultimate marginal to decent wind kite is finaly over :)

http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2400060&p=1021106
Good pick, i have the FRS 12m and really like it. Super user friendly kite and fun to ride.


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