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dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

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ced1
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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby ced1 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:10 pm

I think most aspects of one versus the other have been covered.
However coming from someone who openly admits to using both (love the freedom in wave riding with a waist and when looping or boosting prefer the solid feel of a seat which doesn't rub on my broken stick out rib) I will add this:
Changing harnesses helps not have repetitive stress on section of your body wether it be hips back or ribs. Since I kite a lot, it helps avoid stress injuries. Just another take on it...

Ced

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby beebad » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:31 pm


Matteo V
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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby Matteo V » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:54 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:33 pm
In all seriousness, a seat allows a less competent core to kite with some intensity, or a competent one to crank.
I am confused now. Are you saying a seat harness is better, and your preference is just for a waist harness for feel and personal style?


And what about that question that I asked earlier in this thread that you are avoiding - What harness are you using and how old is it?
"Have been in the first version of the Ride Engine harness with both slider and hook" - is that what you are using and still using, or did you just try that one out? What was the increase in comfort in this harness over the other harnesses you have used over the years? - this is the one question I would most like you to answer.

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:39 pm

First production version of ride engine. Have both, slider and hook. The footprint is nice and small. It just feels compact and has a great fit for me. No squeezing when really loaded and it stays put better than previous harnesses.

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby SENDIT! » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:05 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:39 pm
First production version of ride engine. Have both, slider and hook. The footprint is nice and small. It just feels compact and has a great fit for me. No squeezing when really loaded and it stays put better than previous harnesses.
I'm in agreement here. I've used a LOT of different harnesses over the years, and especially since RE first created the hard shell frenzy. Out of the many that I've tried, the RE seems to stay in place better than any of the others that I've used. That being said, if I'm out in really powered up conditions, I'll choose a seat harness (Dakine Fusion is my long time favorite). Doesn't hurt my back and is guaranteed not to ride up, no matter what.

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby Matteo V » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:54 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:39 pm
First production version of ride engine. Have both, slider and hook. The footprint is nice and small. It just feels compact and has a great fit for me. No squeezing when really loaded and it stays put better than previous harnesses.
I wrote:
Matteo V wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:27 pm
The biggest piece of evidence that a waist is the least comfortable of the two, is that EVERY YEAR we hear that "this new model is finally comfortable enough to not ride up, or crush your ribs".

To which you replied:
jumptheshark wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:23 pm
Hey now, thats pretty weak evidentiary criteria there. You gotta consider that seat harnesses don't sell well enough to warrant any marketing!

So again specifically, do you believe the newer harnesses are waaaayyyy better than the previous waist harnesses you used before the RE V1 you use now? Or rather, how would you rate the RE V1 vs the previous waist harnesses you used?

I am asking because you think my "evidentiary criteria" is "weak" in my above statement. Almost all kiters who have been kiting for long enough to have started out with "converted" windsurf style waist harnesses know the disaster those were. The realization that the time limiting factor of a session was the time you could stand to spend in a waist harness, not your endurance capability for actually kiting. And again, every year companies said they had a "solution" to the problem with a new design. But you still hear of problems and complaints from those who wish to use a waist harness, but can't get comfortable in them.

With respect to waist harnesses being marketed so forcefully, I would posit that is due to the ongoing trend of "finally fixing" them so that people will want to try them again after they switched back to a seat due to comfort/performance issues. Seat harnesses are not marketed as vigorously because they can't be made to sell based on hype. Seat harness users just have to use them because that is the best alternative to a waist harness design that is not perfected yet (or may never be for everyone).

Think of it this way:

1. Lots of kiters with lots of experience have been through the washing machine of trying to get a workable waist harness and have settled on a seat harness. Those kiters have just decided to give up on trying a new harness every year, and instead just go with the tried and true seat harnesses.
2. Lots of kiters have settled on a waist harness because they like the "style" or "look" of them and deal with the problems and discomfort they present.
3. Some kiters actually do have a good orthopedic fit for a waist harness and have found that the newest versions are more usable than previous models.

Would you think that people who are still up for the "newest" and "improved" style are more easily marketed to as opposed to those who have already found what actually works for them?

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby knotwindy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:21 pm

Like most that have ridden for a while, started on waist, tried seat, shorts and now back to waist. For me the seat harness limits your hips and legs a bit. The waist limits your upper body a bit to keep proper form. The seat is better for racing and boosting. The waist for everything else for me. Been through lots of trials of waists and the new versions are MUCH better than the old. The RE was a great improvement and the new Ion CS Hadlow with the hook removed and a short slider rope added is for me the perfect match. Lots of support and flexibility combined.
The other difference I notice going back and forth is the pivot point on rolls and tricks, changes lot more than I expected with the change in hook height. You get used to it but it is surprisingly different to me.
And as said above, the most important thing about a harness is the fit and comfort. Everyone is going to like something that fits them the best. Like shoes, they gotta fit or life gets bad fast.

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby IBaKiteboarder » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:26 pm

I've gone back and forth between the Dakine shorts and a couple of different waist harnesses. My first waist harness was the Pyro, which was really good, but I switched to the RE and like it even better. Because I learned with the shorts, they've been my go-to harness forever and I wear them 90% of the time (fixed hook and now the Option slider bar). However, I am starting to wear the RE waist harness more and more, both with the slider and fixed hook, for comparison and to try and see if one or the other ends up winning this battle. There's for sure a dynamic difference when riding, not just when hanging from a line when trying them on, and so far it's been difficult to say which one I like better. I find that I am more "stable" in the shorts and can hold more power for sure, but the waist harness does feel like there's more freedom of movement. That comes at a price though IMHO... I think I get tired quicker in the waist harness, and it squeezes my guts... I don't have a wedge shaped upper body, so I bought the small and wear it pretty tight to keep it below my ribs. If you're interested in seeing the waist harness in action here it is... https://youtu.be/hSmGnKnupa4 In this vid I put the Dakine fixed hook bar on it in place of the slider... again just to experiment.

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby beebad » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:06 pm

Ibakbr, what do you use for your camera?

I am looking at buying a RE waste harness as i have been revisiting the limitations using my dakine seat harness.

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Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby IBaKiteboarder » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:09 pm

beebad wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:06 pm
Ibakbr, what do you use for your camera?

I am looking at buying a RE waste harness as i have been revisiting the limitations using my dakine seat harness.
I have a GoPro Session 4 and 5. The video linked above was using the 5, and IIRC I had it on the 2.7k setting. Editing software was Vegas Movie Studio... I used to use GoPro Studio, but the Vegas is much better... more complicated for sure, but better.


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