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Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

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foilholio
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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby foilholio » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:56 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:Yes, mother nature is still far in front,
Humans are still nature, but we are so far advanced in capability than any other biological creature. To over worship them is foolish. I'll bite my tongue off it the faster than light space squid appear soon.
Horst Sergio wrote: Nobody would have thought in 2005 that you can increase range of a kite like the Speed 1 so much further just by making the surface even smover and understanding real profiles with balloning and tensions in the kite as today within the Sonics for example.

2005 Bow was coming, Pyscho4 Soon. Increase range was nothing to do with what you said, thought that is nice, but it's all to do with increased depower.
Horst Sergio wrote: Nowadays the potential to improve a kite without completely redesigning CAD are very small.
It is actually the opposite, real improvement comes from an incremental approach to improve through small changes. Through that better understanding and a true evolutionary result can be achieved. If it was good enough to design humans then it's good enough to design many more things. The design from the ground up new is very difficult if impossible to find any new improvement. For instance all of flysurfers now wealth of knowledge would have been acquired through much hard effort trying new and different things. Sure once you have the knowledge you can build the model and CAD out a new design with it. But CADing alone does not itself gain any new knowledge. Discussing is largely useless in this regard, the actual test is what is important. Knowledge exchange is merely an attempt to pass true experience between individuals. The problem you have is when false knowledge is passed as true.
Horst Sergio wrote: It is all more about to keep the original bridle shape and fine tun
For who and what? Racing maybe, maybe not. The bar adjustable camber will have it's day in racing ,trust me. Shape change works very well for surfing. Camber change is very useful for different conditions, as well as line length changes which can change arc and drag. The adjustability of a foil can be a nightmare or a blessing.
Horst Sergio wrote: Even the jetflaps FS used for 10 years are gone since a while as a clean shape is more effective.
They were a gimmicky poor implementation of a well understood principle. That is reducing cordwise separation of the airflow reduces stall. Increasing AR is a more proper implementation.

kitexpert
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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby kitexpert » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:29 pm

Absolutely there is room for development and that is great. Part of the kitesurfing fun is new kites and gear, to develop, test and own :wink:

Birds and also sea animals are much superior because they actively control air/water flow, only in some limited applications man made vehicles are better. For example drag of a fish is unbelievable small and birds use their feathers to damp turbulences.

There is millions of years of development by evolution behind them, for traction kites there is only couple of decades.

I agree good modern kites are so well designed and constructed that there is not much room to improve them, if at all. (Without redesign with concrete view how to do it). I feel bad if some tinkerer starts to "make better" kite like FS Soul, which is for sure fine tuned kite after lines are settled in.

I think I know how some development can be achieved, but price to pay is more complex structure. With hf's it is a nice advantage to not need big kites, which lowers costs and also makes them more fun to fly. Increasing efficiency also allows a bit smaller kite sizes.

After race foils have developed to quite high level I see it logical same will happen to mid-AR foils. Soul is the first one, but of course not the final word of that genre.

I guess jet flaps were just not useful enough, they also added weight and costs. Idea is much easier to put in the practice for LEI's, but I don't know how beneficial they are and if someone owns the patents. Some OR kites had jet flaps (I don't know if they still have), I liked them but I don't know how much it was because of jet flaps.
Last edited by kitexpert on Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jakemoore
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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby jakemoore » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:19 pm

Are we trying to get more out of the Pansh A15?

foilholio
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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby foilholio » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:42 am

kitexpert wrote: only in some limited applications man made vehicles are better
Yes those birds going multiples of mach and to other planets are truly astounding. Sure we can learn maybe some more from other creatures, but we have far exceeded most of the natural worlds capabilities by a silly amount.
kitexpert wrote: There is millions of years of development by evolution behind them, for traction kites there is only couple of decades.
Funny you argue I think unknowingly against evolution then now you admire it lol. Human methods to accelerate evolution are impressive!
kitexpert wrote: I feel bad if some tinkerer starts to "make better" kite like FS Soul
kitexpert wrote: I agree good modern kites are so well designed and constructed that there is not much room to improve them, if at all.
You should feel bad! tinkerer can outperform you.
kitexpert wrote: With hf's it is a nice advantage to not need big kites, which lowers costs
Not really, price of bigger kite is not as big as hydrofoil.
kitexpert wrote:and also makes them more fun to fly
Purely subjective that. If you really are into this sport to enjoy flying the kite, may I suggest just kite flying alone for you? Revolution kites look fun to fly. As to people like me, who are into the boarding part of our sport, the kite is there to facilitate that.
jakemoore wrote:Are we trying to get more out of the Pansh A15?
I am, but this thread is not about that. This thread is about a general change to any foil kite.


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