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flying a foil kite- tips needed

For all foil kite riders


TomW
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flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby TomW » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:53 am

I bought a Sonic 2 13m used and had it out for 2 hrs and 40kms yesterday while racing for first time. I'm not into racing, but freeride, and I'm not likely to race at that level again.
This was first time on the kite, with 50cm bar and 20m lines.

I've had my Hyperlink for 2 months and have 20+ hours on it. That's my only foil kite experience.

At first kite was easily back stalling, so I lengthened the rears 50mm. So it flew much better. I think I could have had rears even longer.

Wind was at beginning rather light and I struggled to get up by diving the kite like I do on Hyperlink. It would lose all power as I turned it upwards. After a while I discovered I could put kite at 45 degrees on opposite side of start direction, pull on one rear line to pivot kite so it moved horizontal across the wind window. then just sine it up and down a little to get up speed.,
In higher wind it was way easier and no problems.
Water start tips welcome, both light and stronger winds.

While flying I found I need to not sheet in so much, it's good to let kite breath. Correct?
Perhaps my rear lines were still too short.

Then during transitions, it was completely different too. I'm not sure what to do, but to do a up turn with kite during gybe I get huge amount of Slack. Need to keep kite lower? Tighter turn with board?
And is it even possible to down loop it!? Do I need to reach up and pull leader line to start a down loop?

Simple guidelines and tips welcome.

cwood
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby cwood » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:15 pm

Lots of good questions.
You speak of changing line lengths. Remove them from the kite and check them. Best to start from 4 equal with bar just touching the swivel under tension. 50cm bar is pretty small for that kite. The sonics take some time to turn and I would not run less than 60 on that. Also, how old is the kite? have you checked the mixers? This kite in proper trim is just a dream of stability.

Sheeting too long kills the sonic......let it breath on the upstroke for sure. They are also wonderful to loop on startup in lighter wind. I put the kite at 12 ish and send the kite around in the opposite direction you intend to go so that when it completes the loop it is going forward in your intended direction. I sometimes give the steering line a little tug to start it turning over in the really light stuff. Allow yourself to go down wind with it and you can pop right onto the wing.

If its light wind you really need to loop the kite on gybes. Start high so you have the room. When windy enough if you leave it lower out in front of you you can turn it over in a non loop transition if you keep some line tension. Regardless don't run down wind too long before your carve or you will make the letters of the alphabet with the kite and have a swim.

TomW
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby TomW » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:56 pm

Thanks, kite felt really stable, flew in super light wind and a few others had Soul, DIABLO in the water. No problems with kite behaviour really. I'm sure all of it is my skills.

Kite supposedly has 12hrs on it. The bridle lines, mixers lines, look good, but there's some fabric discolouration thar makes me wonder.( you always wonder). Kite was used in dusty, dry area apparently.. Will check mixers.

Bar is Ozone and new. Lines are calibrated and I use it on standard settings, the Sonic needed the extra 50mm.

Thanks for start tip.

TomW
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby TomW » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:23 pm

I did a mixer test and adjusted B and C , 20mm and 10mm respectively.
Had it up today in 3-4ms on the beach. Hard to tell if it made any difference. But it still backstalls easily with power trim out and bar pulled in. I think I will rig back lines on last rear knot.
On the same bar and lines the hyperlink 9 flys perfect on middle rear knot...

The other thing is I have been on hyperlink and tried steering like cwood says and it makes kite significantly fast in turns.

Thanks for the tips

foilholio
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby foilholio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:59 pm

Lengthen BC or shorten Z, to reduce backstall , increase power, but less stable. You could try a WAC line to reduce stall and get more power.

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jakemoore
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby jakemoore » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:47 am

Classic foil kite flying requires some back stall on the bar to get a sharp turn or a brief boost. Maybe set so when flying kite static at zenith the ideal power is 10 cm from the chicken loop. Also it takes time to develop a feel for where that ideal point is when flying.

Pull the bar to the chicken loop only to initiate a hard turn or lift off in a jump. Then sheet the kite out to get speed and power. Normally when riding and also landing jumps the bar is 10-20 cm from the chicken loop.

You can generate power by sineing the kite up and down. But again pull the bar and at the top and bottom for the turns and sheet out as it flies up and down for power. Sheet out more on the upstroke which should take 3-4 times as long as a downstroke. Saw tooth is better than sine wave.

Alternatively you can generate power by pumping the bar. Momentarily pull the bar in to bring the kite deep into the window. Sheet out for speed and the power comes.

All of the power comes from speed, so mostly don’t choke the kite at the bar.

TomW
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North Mono 7, 9, 12
Ozone Reo 5
Ozone Hyperlink 9mUL, 7m
Flysurfer Sonic 2 13m
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Location: Sweden

Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby TomW » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:49 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:47 am
Classic foil kite flying requires some back stall on the bar to get a sharp turn or a brief boost. Maybe set so when flying kite static at zenith the ideal power is 10 cm from the chicken loop. Also it takes time to develop a feel for where that ideal point is when flying.

Pull the bar to the chicken loop only to initiate a hard turn or lift off in a jump. Then sheet the kite out to get speed and power. Normally when riding and also landing jumps the bar is 10-20 cm from the chicken loop.

You can generate power by sineing the kite up and down. But again pull the bar and at the top and bottom for the turns and sheet out as it flies up and down for power. Sheet out more on the upstroke which should take 3-4 times as long as a downstroke. Saw tooth is better than sine wave.

Alternatively you can generate power by pumping the bar. Momentarily pull the bar in to bring the kite deep into the window. Sheet out for speed and the power comes.

All of the power comes from speed, so mostly don’t choke the kite at the bar.

Thanks Jakemoore. Very clear. I'll give it a go.

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mgs
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby mgs » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:05 pm

phpBB [video]

Can you think of any more tips?

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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby kitexpert » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:58 pm

foilholio wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:59 pm
Lengthen BC or shorten Z, to reduce backstall , increase power, but less stable. You could try a WAC line to reduce stall and get more power.
To reduce backstall it is most important to adjust frontline/backline lengths correctly. Some like backlines tighter to get kite backstall when fully sheeted in (at some windspeed), I don't because I don't like backstall. Same setting is different for different wind speeds and body weights.

Best to keep mixer in factory settings. There is quite a lot design and testing work behind it - no reason to think even mixer setting is not the best compromise.

WAC line is best to forget. After it engages you pull A's with your bar. This means much higher bar pressure and also less AoA change after WAC engages than without it. It may reduce backstall but it won't give more power but less. Higher bar pressure may mislead some to think so...

Mossy 757
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Re: flying a foil kite- tips needed

Postby Mossy 757 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:43 pm

Stop fucking with your mixer, the kite is fine you just need to tune your bar, and better yet, get a bigger bar because 50cm is too short for that kite. I have a 50cm bar on my 11m Sonic2 and it's too short for that kite as well.

If you don't have a 4:1 race style depower, fix that as well. Get a new bar or mod your current bar.

I can't imagine why Foilholio posted that advice, but it's insane that you'd start modifying a brand new kite in the way he suggests. Seriously, random people on the internet don't know better than the designers at Flysurfer.

As far as transitions, you just need to get used to it but you're probably not carving upwind far enough on the gybes, hence the slack lines. The short bar is probably making things worse as well. Get a 60cm bar and you'll be blown away at how different the kite feels. I'd also shorten your lines up to 13-17m, 20m is too long for that kite to feel the way it's designed. I use 16m lines on my freeride setup and find it's much more accommodating in gusts.


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