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Need advice for beginner - kite size

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badgb21
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby badgb21 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:19 pm

You are 90Kg and you ride steady in 7 knots with a 15m LEI Kite on a TT.......Hummmm?
I've been at it a long time with many windspeed meters, many locations and many different folks and never seen that on a TT.

Just how and where do you measure the wind speed when you kite?

As for the rest of your rant, well, I'm not sure who you are arguing with?
And your graph isn't relevant to the OP.

Let's keep it real.


grigorib wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:24 pm
badgb21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:25 am
...This graph courtesy of Peter Frank is a close guide for me at 116Kg, (free ride type kites) I would be interested to hear how accurate it is a the lighter weight end.
Hugh2 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:05 pm
...although my buddies love their Slingshot Rallys in all sizes.
I would give a discount if 2011 on the graph is year when it was produced and I'm sorry if it sucked that bad back then (but I think it didn't)
But the error margin is just too high on the chart.
Or maybe I think of lowend-sweet for largest sizes primarily and rather of sweet-high end of the smaller ones which are different sides of the range

I'm about 200 lbs ~ 90kg and with 15m Turbine I could ride in as low as 7 knots. Steadily.
In 16 knots (whitecaps) I can ride an 8m but I'd take 11m for comfy riding. Same 11m Rally will get me gong in 10knots.
From 20-30 I'll be boosting big on 9m Turbine

I wouldn't accept an argument that whole chart is for identical board size and line length because you're supposed to use adequate setup for each condition.
Besides taking a larger board and longer lines for LW a heavier person should be using a larger board to start with.


Great visualization though, I'll start my own chart, it should be cool little project

grigorib
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby grigorib » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:49 pm

badgb21 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:19 pm
You are 90Kg and you ride steady in 7 knots with a 15m LEI Kite on a TT.......Hummmm?
I've been at it a long time with many windspeed meters, many locations and many different folks and never seen that on a TT.

Just how and where do you measure the wind speed when you kite?
15m Turbine, 37m lines 170x50cm, Flydoor5 XL. smooth SSW at Rodanthe.
Checked wind speed getting back at the house and looking history from station by Real - a bit upwind from where I rode.


I'm not arguing with anyone - I'm trying to point out the graph shown above is misleading, especially for OP question.
OP got my advice earlier/above anyways.

PullStrings
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby PullStrings » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:10 pm

grigorib wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:49 pm
badgb21 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:19 pm
You are 90Kg and you ride steady in 7 knots with a 15m LEI Kite on a TT.......Hummmm?
I've been at it a long time with many windspeed meters, many locations and many different folks and never seen that on a TT.

Just how and where do you measure the wind speed when you kite?

15m Turbine, 37m lines 170x50cm Flydoor5 XL. Smooth SSW at Rodanthe.
Checked wind speed getting back at the house and looking history from station by Real - a bit upwind from where I rode.

Done with big kites though - those are silly.
Time of year please when you did that

Wind station was not over the water where you were riding

SSW wind at certain time of year (usually spring ) very dense and powerful

Gradient wind combo with density

Long lines may not have been necessary

I understand that there is not too many ways to assert the wind speed and most people rely on stations

Myself have been in those kind of unbelievable LW conditions at my spot with LEI 17 24m lines...it was 6 knots on the beach and at station...but when I tell my friends in what wind speed I was out...

....i say 6kn on the beach but "15 knots" of power out on the water...the depower line was pulled in all the way !!..doing 3m high jumps

Conditions were sideshore wind...upwelling ocean...cold water versus warm wind...glassy ocean...wind aloft powerful and dense

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JustAGirl
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby JustAGirl » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:19 pm

badgb21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:25 am
That Kite is not ideal for a learner.
Something easier to control and water re-launch would be better.
Hard to imagine thinking about low end at 54Kg!
Be sure you know what wind speed the kite will re launch in and don't let her our if it's below, keep safe.
This graph courtesy of Peter Frank is a close guide for me at 116Kg, (free ride type kites) I would be interested to hear how accurate it is a the lighter weight end.
Good luck with your choice.

Image
Am I reading this correctly? At my size I’m basically supposed to ride a 10m kite in 10 Knots?
That’s A B S U R D
The scale is wrong unless it’s for foiling

badgb21
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby badgb21 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:03 am

Well, only you know your weight.
Funny the kite is in the right ball park for me at 116Kg and most of the comments for the OP at 54Kg
Seems for 90Kg it is about 6 knots over stated (Hummmm..) and from your comments under stated by a measure too at the very low weight end :o

I suppose the figures on the graph do assume a certain level of competence as well as a uniform method of wind measurement.



JustAGirl wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:19 pm
badgb21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:25 am
That Kite is not ideal for a learner.
Something easier to control and water re-launch would be better.
Hard to imagine thinking about low end at 54Kg!
Be sure you know what wind speed the kite will re launch in and don't let her our if it's below, keep safe.
This graph courtesy of Peter Frank is a close guide for me at 116Kg, (free ride type kites) I would be interested to hear how accurate it is a the lighter weight end.
Good luck with your choice.



Am I reading this correctly? At my size I’m basically supposed to ride a 10m kite in 10 Knots?
That’s A B S U R D
The scale is wrong unless it’s for foiling

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JustAGirl
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby JustAGirl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:58 pm

badgb21 wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:03 am
Well, only you know your weight.
Funny the kite is in the right ball park for me at 116Kg and most of the comments for the OP at 54Kg
Seems for 90Kg it is about 6 knots over stated (Hummmm..) and from your comments under stated by a measure too at the very low weight end :o

I suppose the figures on the graph do assume a certain level of competence as well as a uniform method of wind measurement.



JustAGirl wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:19 pm
badgb21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:25 am
That Kite is not ideal for a learner.
Something easier to control and water re-launch would be better.
Hard to imagine thinking about low end at 54Kg!
Be sure you know what wind speed the kite will re launch in and don't let her our if it's below, keep safe.
This graph courtesy of Peter Frank is a close guide for me at 116Kg, (free ride type kites) I would be interested to hear how accurate it is a the lighter weight end.
Good luck with your choice.



Am I reading this correctly? At my size I’m basically supposed to ride a 10m kite in 10 Knots?
That’s A B S U R D
The scale is wrong unless it’s for foiling
Clearly you didn’t read correctly: 10 meters at 10 Knots only fits the 50 kg category on the chart, so take a wild guess where my weight fits 🙄 I didn’t think I have to spell it out for the contentious but illiterate

Show me one person who weighs 50 - 54 kg who can ride a 10 in 10 Knots. The scale is way off!

grigorib
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby grigorib » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:50 pm

JustAGirl wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:58 pm
....
Clearly you didn’t read correctly: 10 meters at 10 Knots only fits the 50 kg category on the chart, so take a wild guess where my weight fits 🙄 I didn’t think I have to spell it out for the contentious but illiterate

Show me one person who weighs 50 - 54 kg who can ride a 10 in 10 Knots. The scale is way off!
I think 70kg person can ride 10m in 10knots.
10m Rally and a door. Easy, provided riding flat water, without current/waves

grigorib
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby grigorib » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:06 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:10 pm
...
Time of year please when you did that

Wind station was not over the water where you were riding

SSW wind at certain time of year (usually spring ) very dense and powerful

Gradient wind combo with density

Long lines may not have been necessary

I understand that there is not too many ways to assert the wind speed and most people rely on stations

Myself have been in those kind of unbelievable LW conditions at my spot with LEI 17 24m lines...it was 6 knots on the beach and at station...but when I tell my friends in what wind speed I was out...

....i say 6kn on the beach but "15 knots" of power out on the water...the depower line was pulled in all the way !!..doing 3m high jumps

Conditions were sideshore wind...upwelling ocean...cold water versus warm wind...glassy ocean...wind aloft powerful and dense
I believe April 18 2016 about sunset time (tried to check video file where it’s captured). So yes, colder and more dense air. I think Real station been there for long time before then. And I’m pretty certain we were looking at Real station graph when I came back.
I know it’s hard to impossible to measure gradient. Water was like disturbed glass. No jumping, I was glad to be able to ride at all. Later in the session wind dropped to 6 or below and I started going downwind. Then it picked up a tad and I made it most of the way back, not quite all the way.

On shallow water like that I take lightwind as challenge. You can ask Chicago/Madison guys - they know I like to prove LW is rideable. I might not be riding LW which I know I can ride for sure but trying the lowest end possible has been entertaining me a lot. Lately with 633 foil it got whole new meaning.

Long lines are absolutely needed for that for initial dive and getting on plane, at least I need them. Huge difference between 24m, my longer 30m set and 37m.

Funny, but yes I depower a lot for lightest winds not to choke the kite. Fly the kite and let apparent wind carry you.

My bottom line is for a 54kg person the 9-10m kite is a right size for 11/14 knots. Of course not North Vegas 2009

PullStrings
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby PullStrings » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:56 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:50 pm
JustAGirl wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:58 pm
....
Clearly you didn’t read correctly: 10 meters at 10 Knots only fits the 50 kg category on the chart, so take a wild guess where my weight fits 🙄 I didn’t think I have to spell it out for the contentious but illiterate

Show me one person who weighs 50 - 54 kg who can ride a 10 in 10 Knots. The scale is way off!
I think 70kg person can ride 10m in 10knots.
10m Rally and a door. Easy, provided riding flat water, without current/waves
Well... think all you want :wink:
When "better half" and self get to the beach and it's a true 10 knots / 11.5 mph she does not rig a 10 sqm or even her 12 if she wants to have any fun
Yeah 10 sqm :roll: if you intend to go straight downwind moving the kite around and do a walk of shame back....that's not what we can call riding
At 52 kg /114 lbs & 16 years of kitesurfing using her 29L Quad fins North Nugget 5'2..." she puts up a delta shape ** 14 sqm ** to rip upwind ...catch bunch of waves and trow forwards and backs

She uses for 10 knots of wind.... Peter's 65kg rider line and not the 50kg rider line on his graph
Peter's location / latitude has a lot to do with graph because the water temp is most of the time much colder than the air especially in spring and summer months
Wind density increases and we all have experienced what happens to the power in the kite....less wind speed is generally needed
Similar situation to those living in Canada around the great lakes

grigorib
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Posts: 1081
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Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
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Re: Need advice for beginner - kite size

Postby grigorib » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:20 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:56 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:50 pm
JustAGirl wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:58 pm
....
Clearly you didn’t read correctly: 10 meters at 10 Knots only fits the 50 kg category on the chart, so take a wild guess where my weight fits 🙄 I didn’t think I have to spell it out for the contentious but illiterate

Show me one person who weighs 50 - 54 kg who can ride a 10 in 10 Knots. The scale is way off!
I think 70kg person can ride 10m in 10knots.
10m Rally and a door. Easy, provided riding flat water, without current/waves
Well... think all you want :wink:
When "better half" and self get to the beach and it's a true 10 knots / 11.5 mph she does not rig a 10 sqm or even her 12 if she wants to have any fun
Yeah 10 sqm :roll: if you intend to go straight downwind moving the kite around and do a walk of shame back....that's not what we can call riding
At 52 kg /114 lbs & 16 years of kitesurfing using her 29L Quad fins North Nugget 5'2..." she puts up a delta shape ** 14 sqm ** to rip upwind ...catch bunch of waves and trow forwards and backs

She uses for 10 knots of wind.... Peter's 65kg rider line and not the 50kg rider line on his graph
Peter's location / latitude has a lot to do with graph because the water temp is most of the time much colder than the air especially in spring and summer months
Wind density increases and we all have experienced what happens to the power in the kite....less wind speed is generally needed
Similar situation to those living in Canada around the great lakes
I guess it’s can vs. should. Can I ride 11m with a door and long lines in 10knots. It’d be a close call but I might be able to make it. Would I rather ride 15m in 10 knots - certainly. Would I dump the twintip and ride my 9m on a foil in 10 knots - absolutely.

Waves and currents make huge difference. My estimates are for riding flat water with minimal chop.
Last edited by grigorib on Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.


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