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Core and German engineering meme

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Toby
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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby Toby » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:12 pm

Ah ok, sorry then that you didn’t know about it.
I just read the comment above and it sounded you knew about it.

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deniska
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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby deniska » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:11 am

so changing the lines, and numerous parts and spending close to $300 in parts this year on this 1/year old bar bought me 2 months w/o swimming...
I guess I am lucky that it was not on a 15m jump OR that I had a friend to pull me towards the beach OR that I did not get tangled in both front lines OR that the kite did not get damaged while it flew away on release and landed half a mile away.. #30kt40Fday
I know I am not alone, regardless of what CORE shills will tell ya.. a friend had similar issue 2 weeks ago and we are talking about maybe 5-7 people kiting in those conditions and 3-4 on CORE locally...
vlcsnap-2018-11-10-20h13m21s322.jpg

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby junebug » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:14 pm

I skimmed through this thread and the other Core thread this morning. As it affects my purchasing decisions, I have two main takeaways:

1. The sample size of complaints about Core products is too small for me to conclude that they are generally poorly made, but it’s absurd for a kite manufacturer to make customers in a market it serves pay international shipping for spare parts, regardless of where that particular customer bought their particular kite. If you are going to serve a market, then serve the market. Otherwise, be a regional kite company.

2. On the assumption that Core makes quality products—and, like I said, I don’t see sufficient systemic evidence to think otherwise—even if Core didn’t charge for international shipping, it would not get my business as long as it affiliates reps like this CaptainCore character. The contempt he displays for customers is shocking, and the fact that Core is willing to allow him to represent it is unforgivable. It doesn’t matter to me whether he is right or wrong from a product quality standpoint—I’m not going to give my money to a business who allow guys like him to rep them. Simple as that.

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby k2thiago » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:59 pm

Well i do think that the Core sensor pro that i have doesnt worth 600 bucks, it does have some flaws regarding design, specially the ssf system, the low quality eva grip (mine is already falling apart) and the floats (one of them just snapped in my hands). However the lines are high quality, I have the bar for a year and besides Im not riding every day, the lines havent streched/ shrinked yet- and thats is really good compared to my waiman carrot, which I had way less sessions and the lines have stretch af. But, I must say that I did have a serious issue: once the lines didnt untwist properly while i need to activate the safety system d/t a major change in the wind and the kite couldnt depowe properly, starting a kind of a death spin. Was quite scary, but luckily I was in a relative safe place, so no major damage. The problem was d/t two things: my lack of experience and a issue with the design. I have changed the chicken loop, and I have tightened the little grub screw too much - that stuff can touch the center “shaft” of the rotor causing it to stuck. The problem is with that kind of equipment, things need to be fault proof, as can pose a treat to ones safety. Also, isn't only the screw that can stuck the rotor: sand, salt acumulation etc also can have the same effect. Now I am more careful with my gear: I do not only wash the bar with fresh water after every session, but also apply WD on the metal parts let say every other session. That does solve “my side” of the issue, but definetely the company should start re thinking the design, as one can not be as lucky as I was when had the issue. Any TOPSET investigation after any major incident would point out flaws of the design as root cause, and the inexperience of the user as second cause. So, I do like Core, but there is definetely space to improve, specially on the safety side. And if you want to sell it with a premium price over the competition, speciallyd d/t quality, it needs to be impecable. IMHO

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby Matteo V » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:44 pm

k2thiago wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:59 pm
....And if you want to sell it with a premium price over the competition, speciallyd d/t quality, it needs to be impecable. IMHO

NO! This is absolutely wrong, though it is the way I used to think and most consumers susceptible to advertising/pricing "hype" also think. Then I learned through experience how it really works.

Price is based on "perception" of quality, not actual quality. If you purchase based on higher price equating to better quality in kiteboarding, you will be very disappointed in your gear sometime in your kiting experience.

The overwhelming reality of COREporate kiteboarding is that YOU have lots of money, and the COREporation is using all of the tools at their disposal to get it.

Here are some of their tools:

1. Building a quality product - costs COREporations lots of money for the same return as their competition doing the same thing, thus virtually no incentive to do this on a year to year investor profit model.
2. Using traditional advertising - can cost lots of money, but if done better than the competition, can have a bigger return than the competition.
3. Using team riders/demos to promote the product to the right (buying) market - extremely difficult to even identify the "right" market, and even more risky if gear fails in competitions or at demos exposing sub-standard build quality.
4. Hype via social media (used to be word of mouth/rumor) - EXTREMELY LOW COST and more effective than any other promotion method in making the buyer "believe" in a product they have never seen or even tried, and provides huge returns on very little investment. - this is the holy grail of COREporate kiteboarding.

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby lewmt » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:55 pm

junebug wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:14 pm
I skimmed through this thread and the other Core thread this morning. As it affects my purchasing decisions, I have two main takeaways:

1. The sample size of complaints about Core products is too small for me to conclude that they are generally poorly made, but it’s absurd for a kite manufacturer to make customers in a market it serves pay international shipping for spare parts, regardless of where that particular customer bought their particular kite. If you are going to serve a market, then serve the market. Otherwise, be a regional kite company.

2. On the assumption that Core makes quality products—and, like I said, I don’t see sufficient systemic evidence to think otherwise—even if Core didn’t charge for international shipping, it would not get my business as long as it affiliates reps like this CaptainCore character. The contempt he displays for customers is shocking, and the fact that Core is willing to allow him to represent it is unforgivable. It doesn’t matter to me whether he is right or wrong from a product quality standpoint—I’m not going to give my money to a business who allow guys like him to rep them. Simple as that.
I'm a very small business owner who has succeeded with excellent customer service for 20+ years(nothing kite related). Customer service is -THE- key to what I look for 1st & foremost in kiting. Performance is there among most brands these days depending on what you want from your kites. I have 1 friend who flies Core & loves them & I don't think he's had any issues - yet. I agree with you that after reading through the hostility Core tosses at their customers I won't ever be considering their kites. I've had a similar experience with the US distributor for Flysurfer so I'll never have another. I have had great luck with Ozone, Slingshot, Switch & BRM Clouds. All of them do incredibly well on customer service but with Ozone & Slingshot may be somewhat dependent on your local dealer also.

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby deniska » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:04 pm

junebug wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:14 pm
1. The sample size of complaints about Core products is too small for me to conclude that they are generally poorly made
you may be right, but it's funny that cakes like that exist..
Just got it in my media feed 2 days ago.. This pretty my describes my experience with core bar every 2-3months, regardless of how many parts I change...
46271100_10156581607347347_6995266698748100608_n.jpg

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby Faxie » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:34 pm

Lol

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby grigorib » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:40 pm

1. Snapping bars
2. Exploding struts
3. Proprietary valves
4. Unsafe quick release
5. Not being able to sell old models at discount
6. Hushing down above challenges
7. “German” product but made in China

I think Germany gotta be ashamed of Core. I see expensive and troublesome product but engineering is on level of community college. And with attitude of importers I think those who love to flash the cash deserve all above drama. No sympathy

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Re: Core and German engineering meme

Postby junebug » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:52 pm

deniska wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:04 pm
junebug wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:14 pm
1. The sample size of complaints about Core products is too small for me to conclude that they are generally poorly made
you may be right, but it's funny that cakes like that exist..
Just got it in my media feed 2 days ago.. This pretty my describes my experience with core bar every 2-3months, regardless of how many parts I change...
46271100_10156581607347347_6995266698748100608_n.jpg
That’s awesome


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