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Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

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SaintMark
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Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby SaintMark » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:38 pm

hi, i wanna buy me some cheap kites from the classifieds. To mess around with (mountainboard, snow, water). and wonder why everyone is hating on the old kites.. theres many kites from 2008-2012, some hardly used, for less than 200€, sometimes with bar, but people always prefer new kites. do they really age so fast. can't they be fixed with lots of spinnaker tape (fabric) and shoe goo(valves), or why do all kiters say they suck so bad. Or are they just not as versatile, smaller wind window. When I look at the user manuals from 2008 they all claim to have lots of depower. why can't i ride lets say a north rhino from 2008 and just have a blast. i find kitesurfing to be a throwaway sport. my burton snowboard is almost 20 yrs old and it rides fantastic. same goes for some surfboards. i do understand that sailcloth and fabric ages, so do bladders, but seriously ? can someone please explain why a kite from 2008 or 2012 is considered trash. I heard pros now prefer the old C kites, since the new bowkites are so versatile every noob can ride them.

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jumptheshark
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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:27 pm

There was still a fair bit of development going on around 2008. Enough that you can't reliably just buy any old kite. By 2012 your odds are much better.

The bridle revolution was in those 06-08 years, and they didn't have it down across the board until closer to 2012. Those early years have some decent kites, but there are plenty of dogs that really, are just not worth flying compared to almost anything current. From 2012 on you can pretty much count on at least a decent kite, but once again, a little research goes a long way. The long running C kite models of fuel, torch, vegas are all great by 2012. Other long standing models like the rebel, the later years of the park, the rpm, they all hit relative maturity around 2012.

There are many more good kites out there, things like switchblades etc are all viable, but it helps to know what the traits of a long running model are. The switchblade was never a fast or responsive kite but more of a steady/stable kite. They are probably plenty fast now, but they grew into it much more recently than say 2012.

The rhino you mention is one I would call obsolete. They were a C kite before the vegas. Generally lacked any real depower but packed a lot of lift. Dangerous combo for anyone inexperienced.

Not every long standing model is a lock. The LF envy has been around a while, but they had a weird pulley at the wingtip that they eventually abandoned. Any of that kind of stuff (pulleys on bar ends or attached rear and front bridle, are all evolutionarily dead and I wouldn't bother with them.

Some kites worked great but had particular safety systems that are now pretty obsolete. Everything now is single from line flagging. Old F-ones were all pretty good kites but you hear about looping or failure to roll over properly from those. Put em on a newer bar and they are fine. Other stuff to consider is that between 2008 and say 2015, kites were all still gaining weight with more and more and more battens, reinforcements, and scuff protections. Some companies like SS made "bombproof" their motto and it all got a little extreme. Have never flown an SS that felt snappy and light.

Anyway, that's just a thumbnail sketch. I have no problem buying minty older stuff, but I'm choosy. As a rule of thumb, if you don't know exactly what your looking for, you might as well aim for the sweet spot on the depreciation curve. 3-4 model years old and your still looking at a 2014 kite.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby geopeck » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:55 pm

All the stuff sharky says is true, but also kiters have a different relationship with their gear than you would with a snowboard. The time that you spend kiting in good conditions is super precious. Even if you are living somewhere that can provide good riding every day, day after day, you will want to be using good gear to get as much out of it as you can. You may not recognize performance yet but you'll recognize faster learning, less time on beach, less time dealing with problems.

There have been a few times when I had a choice between ok gear and good gear for, say, an extra $400. If I can pull down $200/day working and I'm not living paycheck to paycheck then yeah, I'm going to happily work those days thinking about how much better the kite will perform. Its been worth it every time I've made that choice - not that you have to just hand all your money over to the companies but if you see a hole in your quiver or a good opportunity then it's money well spent because the sport is fentanyl level fun.

Also if you go with old cheap gear it doesn't have much pass along value, unless you have an ethical compass that lets you misrepresent it to a beginner. If you drop a bit more it will retain some market value when you upgrade.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby jyka » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:07 pm

I love old kites ;) But how old is old. My oldest kite is now 2011 best hp nemesis v3 8m and IMO it flies just like the brand new kites. Had some 2009 and 2010 kites and they were good enough also.
I would be worried more if the older gear is worn-out

If you ask from kite resellers, you have to buy every year new kites because the new gear is SO MUCH BETTER! :D And suddenly the previous year models aren't anymore good, just a year ago they were so perfect.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:31 pm

I'll add that since the dawn of kiteboarding, 9m was always the most developed size. Windy R&D spots meant 9m got the lions share of prototyping and there was a lot of just scaling up and down.

Now bigger kites are built lighter with significant testing and design differences. Any old kite above 13m is almost guaranteed to be pretty lame by todays standards, where you can have fun with plenty of older 9m kites.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby SaintMark » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:56 am

thanks for all the answers.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby JakeFarley » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:08 pm

My 9m Yarga is 2007(doesn't get that much use), my 14m Nemesis is 2009 (I reglued all the valves), my 11m and 16m xbows are 2010 and my 21m Flysurfer is 2016. I love flying all except the Yarga because it is so twitchy. I will probably retire it soon.

If you take care of your gear it will last if you are not into extreme riding and do not crash your kites a lot. My oldest board is my Cabrinha Spoiler (2001). I ran over it with my truck a couple of years after it was new; no damage. Also don't leave your kites flapping on the beach in the sun like a lot of kiters do. I suppose that's why mine have lasted so long.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby or6 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:11 pm

If you want to use older, cheap kites on land, see if you can find any Peter Lynn ARCS. Any model will suit you fine, and all are safe, and very well suited for use on land or snow.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby Greenturtle » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:26 pm

I will add that for land and snow the wind quality is going to suck in some locations such as in mountains or around any trees at all. As in gusting from 0 to 30 haha.

So look for a kite with tons of range and easy sheet out depower. Such as deltas from the 2012 end of your scale like Rally, Kahoona etc.

Good luck and wear a helmet.

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Re: Why is everyone hating on old kites ?

Postby edt » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:18 pm

jumntheshark nailed it got nothing to add


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