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Trainer/Beginner kite advice

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Nikbag
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Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby Nikbag » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:54 pm

Hi, i recently started kiteboarding both on snow and water.

My family owns a cabin up in the Mountains of norway, were its superb conditions for Snowkiting.
Im going on a trip in january With family and friends, and i want to buy a easy to use and somewhat safe kite for them to use, aswell i want the kite to have enough "power/pull" to be used for a little transition kiteboarding (skiis, snowboard etc).

I want to limit the purchase to about 300 usd, but if someone has suggestions for other kites in other price ranges feel free to give a suggestion!

My question is if should i go with a trainer kite, or is there cheap foil/tube kites suited for beginners or something i can buy for better transition kiting?

I have watched some trainer kites but cant decide wich one i should go for, i really want the kite to be usable for transition kiting.
The kites i've checked out:

HQ scout 4.0 (this one top the list for now. Its on sale for 280 usd nearby)
Slingshot B3 (ive read its very good for beginners, but i have a feeling that the scout has more power?)
Prism Kites Tensor 4.2 Power (supposed to have great power)
HQ hydra (is the closed cell types powerful enough kiting on water?)
Flysurfer viron (bit expensive mby)

Harnesses and other equipment is not a problem.
I have only been kiting for 2 years and would appriciate any advice or suggestion.

- Nikolai :D

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Slappysan
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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby Slappysan » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:37 am

There really are only 2 options you should consider, and if they are too expensive you should consider buying them used instead.

1) FlySurfer Peak 4 (but Peak 1/2/3 would work)
2) Gin Shaman

These are both hybrid single skin kites and they are very safe to learn on and very safe to kite with. They have limited lifting power though so not a kite you would take out jumping, which is what makes them safe to learn with.

They will be quite a bit more than $300 but 100% worth it.

The Viron is actually more expensive than the Peak but a far less usable kite outside of teaching.

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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby FLandOBX » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:38 am

Hey, NikBag.

The kites you've mentioned, except for the FS Viron, are not sheetable. By that, I mean that they use a bar that can't be sheeted out/in to adjust the kite's power. That's not to say that they aren't fun kites, but you'll need to move the kite around in the wind window in order to adjust the power. They'll still provide some power to slide around on skis or a snowboard, but they won't allow you to progress like a 4-5 line sheetable kite might.

The Flysurfer Viron and the two kites that Slappysan mentions are sheetable. That's why they are more expensive, and that's why they are better options if you're looking for a kite that you can use to progress in the sport.

Of the kites you've listed, I have a HQ Scout (5 meter) and a Slingshot B3, and I've used the HQ hydra for teaching. Of those three, I like the Scout best. But a sheetable kite will provide more enjoyment for the long term and will allow you to progress in the sport, so you'll need to decide if you want to spend a little more money for those advantages. Whatever you do, have fun with it. :thumb:

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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby Nikbag » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:33 am

Thank you, really helpful! I'll put some more into it and buying a sheetable instead.

I found a Flysurfer peak3 9kvm barely used for 470 usd, without bar. (i have an extra bar)
Will this be good in wind conditions from 6-15 knots? The users will be about 75-85kg.
Found a Peak3 6kvm new for about the same price.

Considering the Peak in 6 or 9 kvm. Thoughts?

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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby Matteo V » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:32 pm

Nikbag wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:54 pm
HQ scout 4.0 (this one top the list for now. Its on sale for 280 usd nearby)
That was my first kite. I was pretty disappointing in it, but later I came to realize it was a good kite for being non-depower. Still, I gave it away as I had no use for it, and purchased smaller trainers (Rush Pro in the 250 size) that I could actually teach with. Non-depower kites like trainers and traction kites, are almost usless for actually riding.

The reality is that what YOU want to learn on, and you want to teach OTHERS (who may not be as enthusiastic as you are about kiting) on, are 2 different things. Being dedicated to kiting, you have already accepted the risks. Others with a passive interest, need to be kept much safer via a small trainer. One bad experience can

But small trainers (no bigger than 250) are useful for you to use later for:
1. Checking the wind stability/gusts in an unfamiliar location or on an unfamiliar weather pattern/direction before you risk your larger kite or your body.
2. Introducing yourself to unhooked handle passes so you can determine if your shoulders will take the stress - safer, but not completely safe on a trainer.
3. Practicing other moves such as rotations - extremely safe on a trainer.
4. Smaller adults and kids are much safer with a smaller trainer, but caution still needs to be taken in medium winds. *No smaller adult or child should fly a trainer of any size in high winds until having developed a high degree of skill, and only should fly in strong winds with close supervision.


Nikbag wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:54 pm
Im going on a trip in january With family and friends, and i want to buy a easy to use and somewhat safe kite for them to use, aswell i want the kite to have enough "power/pull" to be used for a little transition kiteboarding (skiis, snowboard etc).
Trainer kites of a proper size/weight can be used for kiteskiing, but will likely not have upwind capabilities. Still, they make for a good and safe training aid for kiteskiiers.

Trainer kites virtually cannot be used for kitesnowboarding as the kite NEEDS to have lots of power to lift a snowboarder from the sitting position to the standing position before any movement (apparent wind) is possible. In contrast, a kiteskiier is already standing and can move across the wind (creating apparent wind) before the kite even starts to generate usable power.



Bottom line is: NON-DEPOWER kites are almost only useful in trainer sizes. DEPOWER kites give an extreme advantage as far as ease of use and capabilities in sizes used to move a person around on the snow - especially with a snowboard.

The one exception to this is that large non-depower kite skill will make you a much better kiter with depower kites. Still, you have to give up a lot of fun, and have the perseverance to kite without having fun, to enjoy this benefit.

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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby Slappysan » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:52 pm

Nikbag wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:33 am
Considering the Peak in 6 or 9 kvm. Thoughts?
From their website:
PEAK3 4.0 6.0 9.0 12.0
Land (knots) 5-27 (max. 30) 3-18 (max. 20) 3-16 (max. 18) 3-14 (max. 16)

So 6 or 9 look like the right call, with snowkiting it depends on how deep the powder is too though.

Be careful with non Flysurfer bars, I'm not sure it will work. These kites are 5th line flagging not, single front line flagging.

Read this carefully before deciding on bar:
https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... Safety.pdf

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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby fernmanus » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:45 pm

Definitely go with the 9M Peak 3, not the 6 for the wind conditions you described.

I use my Peak 3 with a Flysurfer 4 line bar, any bar with even length lines and a rear-line flagout system should work with the Peak 3, but I would test in light winds to be sure. It is possible to setup the Peak 3 with a 5 line bar, but you are not limited to the 5 line bar.

I have seen so many new kiters over the years trying to relaunch their small kites out a wind shadowed area. The Peak 3 almost seems magical in it's ability to easily relaunch and to stay in the air when the wind is light.

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Re: Trainer/Beginner kite advice

Postby bay surfer » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:32 pm

My family owns a cabin up in the Mountains of norway, were its superb conditions for Snowkiting.
If you were where it was flat any 4m would be safe to pull a skier around with a little practice. Pansh has 4m non depower kites for 100E, you would have to set it up 3 line with a bar. I would go bigger depowerable for terrain, but any kite bigger than a 5m can loft a novice. Go 4 to 3m for any novice, any bigger you'll put them at risk. If you really need to go Bigger, Pansh has depowerable kites in your price range and they work with your bar.


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