No need for a release system/safety?

[longwhitecloud]

you should always ride in the way that you don't need a QR. That is the safest way possible.

Once you need to activate a QR, you made a mistake.

Back then we didn't have a QR...and we had to anticipate a lot to not get injured. This starts from keeping distance on land and water, checking forecasts and the actual sky etc.

You rely on your QR, you ask for trouble.

Totally, the way it is today, we have people afraid to learn to unhook (not freestyle unhooking - just unhooking) and be comfortable - actually against . trying it as they say it is a safety concern?! wtf (keep your distance of course..) \. That is totally not how to prepare yourself for a bad situation - your natural reaction to stay hooked in may be your, por someone elses undoing. Practice letting go with and without safety - eg grabbing your loop with both hands etc... I am not a fan of new safety systems that do not make it super easy to get out of with.. or without use of qr -i dont like super small chicken loops for example.

Over engineering is creeping into kiteboarding IMO. Good engineers don't get over complex and understand what they are dealing with. Unfortunately focusing profit based engineering in design is reality - a good example being Volkswagon - using engineering and technology for profit - not just good engineering, the Japanese are great engineers IMO, would be interesting to have a Japanese brand of kite . - continual improvement as opposed to continual bull$hit≥

I fully understand why freestylers were using non QR huge chicken loops. These riders are not the ones I worry about -its the kooks you have to worry about - all the gear and no idea

We used to look at harnesses to see if we could get out of them them even...

[Matteo V]

Still wondering how you would have dragged In with the same injury as Ruben as you stated was the correct thing to do..

after reloading the qr, sorting the kite relaunching it and then getting through the waves to the shore with a powered kite and an massively fractured leg in boots

All the while whole not doing yourself more damage let alone not passing out through the pain.

Sorry if you don't really want an answer to this question, but some others here are going to. So let me apologize in advance if my response upsets you. TRIGGER WARNING! Reality follows.


(NOT AN) Option #1 - Lay there and wait for rescue (bad idea as the kite is going to pull you against the board, possibly causing you to pass out from pain of getting yanked around with a broken leg). If you happen to pass out, you will likely drown.


(NOT AN) Option #2 - Disconnect the kite, take the board off, and lay there while waiting for rescue (very bad idea if you are not wearing a lifejacket [I don't wear one in the ocean break] and/or it is even slightly side off). If you have no flotation, you may want to try to keep the board for extra flotation and visibility for rescue. If you happen to pass out while doing this, you will likely drown.


Option #3 - If the kite can possibly still be flown, take the board off. If you can body drag better with a boot/board combo, then you may want to try to keep it. If the wind is more onshore, then it may be of no help and you should just ditch it. If you are not good at dragging with a board/boot combo, ditch the board without a second thought. Next, relaunch the kite to drag in. If you happen to pass out while doing this, you will likely drown.


Option #4 - If the kite cannot be flown again: (a.) ditch it if you can make the swim easily, as in if the wind is onshore and there are no rip currents where you need to go in OR (b.) keep the kite and self rescue with it if the wind is slightly off shore or there are rip currents that could make extra time fighting them with hand power more dangerous. If you happen to pass out while doing this, you will likely drown.


I think we can all agree that the board at this point (where you cannot possibly ride it) is luggage and you should not hesitate to get rid of it if it is of no use. I think we can all agree that the possibility of you passing out in the break with or without a kite dragging you = death.


james, please feel free to let me know any holes in my proposed options, or my simple statements of reality.

And to those who find dying in the break because you got knocked unconscious (or passed out from pain) somewhat unfathomable, please don't kite in the break.

[foilholio]

The question is can either Matteo or Kitexpert be baited into an argument with each other.

Poor Toby he doesn't deserve your blatant trolling Matteo. Stop misrepresenting peoples positions, you are beginning to feel like a sjw.

[Matteo V]

Did I say one should ride WITHOUT a QR ???

I DID NOT !!!

All I said was that you should ride like you had no QR. Big difference !

And of course I use one.

Originally you stated at the end of your first post -

You rely on your QR, you ask for trouble.

My issue with this is that many here on this forum, especially beginners or those with a tendency toward a lower level of conscientiousness, may read your statement as meaning the QR is of little importance. It is actually quite the opposite. I agree that your QR is not your first defense against an accident. But it is your LAST DEFENSE against it.

Thus while I agree that if "You rely on your QR, you ask for trouble", you are asking for even more trouble if you are using an unreliable QR.

Same with the seatbelt/airbag analogy. Do you drive with the goal of wrecking because you have safety devices that will allow you to survive? NO! But if you do have an accident, they are there as a last resort.

[foilholio]

Can you stop?

[Matteo V]

The question is can either Matteo or Kitexpert be baited into an argument with each other.

Poor Toby he doesn't deserve your blatant trolling Matteo. Stop misrepresenting peoples positions, you are beginning to feel like a sjw.

Unlike sjw/npc's, I don't debate individuals. I debate ideas.

[purdyd]

We are on the same page here.

Maybe it was not understandable to everyone, but of course you need a working QR !

But once you need to use it you already made a mistake before. That’s the message.

And of course, nothing is 100% ! So yes, there will be even situations where your last chance is to use the QR.

[james]

Still wondering how you would have dragged In with the same injury as Ruben as you stated was the correct thing to do..

after reloading the qr, sorting the kite relaunching it and then getting through the waves to the shore with a powered kite and an massively fractured leg in boots

All the while whole not doing yourself more damage let alone not passing out through the pain.

Sorry if you don't really want an answer to this question, but some others here are going to. So let me apologize in advance if my response upsets you. TRIGGER WARNING! Reality follows.


(NOT AN) Option #1 - Lay there and wait for rescue (bad idea as the kite is going to pull you against the board, possibly causing you to pass out from pain of getting yanked around with a broken leg). If you happen to pass out, you will likely drown.


(NOT AN) Option #2 - Disconnect the kite, take the board off, and lay there while waiting for rescue (very bad idea if you are not wearing a lifejacket [I don't wear one in the ocean break] and/or it is even slightly side off). If you have no flotation, you may want to try to keep the board for extra flotation and visibility for rescue. If you happen to pass out while doing this, you will likely drown.


Option #3 - If the kite can possibly still be flown, take the board off. If you can body drag better with a boot/board combo, then you may want to try to keep it. If the wind is more onshore, then it may be of no help and you should just ditch it. If you are not good at dragging with a board/boot combo, ditch the board without a second thought. Next, relaunch the kite to drag in. If you happen to pass out while doing this, you will likely drown.


Option #4 - If the kite cannot be flown again: (a.) ditch it if you can make the swim easily, as in if the wind is onshore and there are no rip currents where you need to go in OR (b.) keep the kite and self rescue with it if the wind is slightly off shore or there are rip currents that could make extra time fighting them with hand power more dangerous. If you happen to pass out while doing this, you will likely drown.


I think we can all agree that the board at this point (where you cannot possibly ride it) is luggage and you should not hesitate to get rid of it if it is of no use. I think we can all agree that the possibility of you passing out in the break with or without a kite dragging you = death.


james, please feel free to let me know any holes in my proposed options, or my simple statements of reality.

And to those who find dying in the break because you got knocked unconscious (or passed out from pain) somewhat unfathomable, please don't kite in the break.

This is great thank you

All of your options give the pass out and drown option

Something that you explicitly left out In Your first assessment of reconnect the QR and relaunch and body drag in even if chumming from and open fracture.

So again how do YOU manage such a feat of pain suppression, we all want to know?

[andylc]

Toby’s comments are entirely true. I have never needed to use my QR during a session, but the other day I launched my kite with half a bridle detached and very much needed the QR. My mistake to not have double checked but the presence of a working QR avoided injury to myself or others.

[soeren76]

I think most things have been said but just on a side note. My biggest concern with totally releasing the kite would be that the lines tangled in to someone and therefore powering up the kite. I live in spain and recently saw a guy walking unhooked with his kite and lost it (dont know why he did not wear a leash). The kite hovered nicely over a hotel with a rooftop bar. As it is not summer not many people where up the but in my mind pictures of a loose kite catching a child was running wild. And that is why I would be a bit reluctant to fully release a kite.