Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
Kamikuza
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6926
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
Local Beach: Sabae Beach
Favorite Beaches: Ol' Stinky
Gear: This, that, the other
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 165 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:25 pm

Had this happen with 2017 Cab bars -- same setup, with the doubled line. Was a bunch of them at the local spot back home, all going the same way.

The theory was that it was a batch that should have been spliced (as 2018 and other bars were) but weren't, so the line was shifting back and forth on itself (or maybe twisting) and just wearing through itself...

Herman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm
Style: My Own.
Gear: SLE, foils and C kites, TTs, Directionals, Landboards, Buggy.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 365 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby Herman » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:48 pm

Yep I am well aware that a doubled 2.5 mm line of the correct material is easily strong enough to do the job. However the typical failure mode is wear through a single element of the line. With normal duty a well covered 2.5 line may well last longer than a naked 5mm line but to me the stiffer arrangement and difficulty of inspection of a tubed system means my personal preference is naked line. A slightly larger rotor head could be designed to cater for both but this seems to be rare. I think peeps would soon get used to bigger rotor heads which would also be easier to spin. It is just something on my personal wish list.


PS Would I be correct to assume that you can’t get a 4 or 5mm line through the Navigator rotor head?

Hugh2
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:38 am
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 190lb/86kg
Local Beach: Clinton Lake in East-Central Illinois
Favorite Beaches: Cape Hatteras and Cape Town
Style: freeride
Gear: Cabrinha Nomad 5.5, Best Cabo 6, Naish Pivot 6, 7, 9, 10 and 11, Cabrinha Vector 12
Long Ocean 136, Eleveight Master C+ 136, Naish Global 6'0", RB Sixty 3 Matador 5' 8", Slingshot Hoverglide H5 foil and Alien Air 4' 6" and Converter boards
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 206 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby Hugh2 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:00 pm

It is the main line that broke. This bar supposedly was after the recall and was not supposed to have the original issue. The replacement unit that Kevin kindly gave me indeed has two lines in it, I suppose for redundancy? Lanral at the BKA shop kindly installed the replacement, which according to Kevin is an upgrade as well. The two lines are certainly not 5mm, maybe 3mm.

mattaiken MYS NKB
Medium Poster
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:52 pm
Kiting since: 1996
Local Beach: Toronto, ON. Canada
Style: Directional.Foil/Surf
Gear: North/Mystic
Brand Affiliation: North Kiteboarding - Mystic Boarding
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby mattaiken MYS NKB » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:42 am

Hugh2 wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:53 am
I've broken the main line on so many bars, but this is the first which I had no idea until it happened because it was inside a tube. The line sticking out to the top left is shredded, and the tube should be tight against the trim cleat. I hear this is common for this 2020 North Navigator bar, which I have used exclusively since June 2020, bought new from REAL in Outer Banks, NC, USA. See my post in Cape Town Diary for more. Hopefully I can get this fixed, however, it greatly reduces my faith in this bar. Time to go back to no-tube bars? Otherwise I love this bar. Pic from phone in next post.
Hi Hugh, The earliest shipments of the first season of Navigator bars had a depower main line where the brand determined there would be a longevity issue. This wasn't a break under load first time issue, more a longevity/wear issue. The bars have serial numbers so North and North dealers contacted consumer with the bars from early production and traded out bars or upgraded the part. The second generation and the third generation (2022) now being shipped have an even more durable depower line that will last longer. There are of course other upgrades to Gen II and Gen III.

If you want to DM me I'll help you source the new (current) generation DPML.

I work with North in the USA market and I don't believe I've seen the new DPML break on any of the newer bars but of course this is kiteboarding and like sailing, windsurfing, etc, etc these parts will fail over time on all brands and they should be replaced periodically. I'm sorry if you feel this part hasn't lasted well, but let's get it replaced.

sarc
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:01 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby sarc » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:33 am

mattaiken MYS NKB wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:42 am
Hugh2 wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:53 am
I've broken the main line on so many bars, but this is the first which I had no idea until it happened because it was inside a tube. The line sticking out to the top left is shredded, and the tube should be tight against the trim cleat. I hear this is common for this 2020 North Navigator bar, which I have used exclusively since June 2020, bought new from REAL in Outer Banks, NC, USA. See my post in Cape Town Diary for more. Hopefully I can get this fixed, however, it greatly reduces my faith in this bar. Time to go back to no-tube bars? Otherwise I love this bar. Pic from phone in next post.
Hi Hugh, The earliest shipments of the first season of Navigator bars had a depower main line where the brand determined there would be a longevity issue. This wasn't a break under load first time issue, more a longevity/wear issue. The bars have serial numbers so North and North dealers contacted consumer with the bars from early production and traded out bars or upgraded the part. The second generation and the third generation (2022) now being shipped have an even more durable depower line that will last longer. There are of course other upgrades to Gen II and Gen III.

If you want to DM me I'll help you source the new (current) generation DPML.

I work with North in the USA market and I don't believe I've seen the new DPML break on any of the newer bars but of course this is kiteboarding and like sailing, windsurfing, etc, etc these parts will fail over time on all brands and they should be replaced periodically. I'm sorry if you feel this part hasn't lasted well, but let's get it replaced.
Hi Mattaiken, any chance that North may switch to transparent sleeving tubes instead of black?

mattaiken MYS NKB
Medium Poster
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:52 pm
Kiting since: 1996
Local Beach: Toronto, ON. Canada
Style: Directional.Foil/Surf
Gear: North/Mystic
Brand Affiliation: North Kiteboarding - Mystic Boarding
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby mattaiken MYS NKB » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:55 pm

sarc wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:33 am
mattaiken MYS NKB wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:42 am
Hugh2 wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:53 am
I've broken the main line on so many bars, but this is the first which I had no idea until it happened because it was inside a tube. The line sticking out to the top left is shredded, and the tube should be tight against the trim cleat. I hear this is common for this 2020 North Navigator bar, which I have used exclusively since June 2020, bought new from REAL in Outer Banks, NC, USA. See my post in Cape Town Diary for more. Hopefully I can get this fixed, however, it greatly reduces my faith in this bar. Time to go back to no-tube bars? Otherwise I love this bar. Pic from phone in next post.
Hi Hugh, The earliest shipments of the first season of Navigator bars had a depower main line where the brand determined there would be a longevity issue. This wasn't a break under load first time issue, more a longevity/wear issue. The bars have serial numbers so North and North dealers contacted consumer with the bars from early production and traded out bars or upgraded the part. The second generation and the third generation (2022) now being shipped have an even more durable depower line that will last longer. There are of course other upgrades to Gen II and Gen III.

If you want to DM me I'll help you source the new (current) generation DPML.

I work with North in the USA market and I don't believe I've seen the new DPML break on any of the newer bars but of course this is kiteboarding and like sailing, windsurfing, etc, etc these parts will fail over time on all brands and they should be replaced periodically. I'm sorry if you feel this part hasn't lasted well, but let's get it replaced.
Hi Mattaiken, any chance that North may switch to transparent sleeving tubes instead of black?
That's not something I've heard on any future plans but I can't claim to be in the inner-circle on R&D and testing. I will say with personal experience windsurf harness lines went transparent for a while (long time ago) and they look awful after some use. Scratched up, UV'd, etc. I understand there's a legacy concern from the first generation bars, but as someone with intimate first hand experience on wear of all things North I can tell you the current depower lines are bomber. I'll also add that the black material used is not some off the shelf PVC tubing but is a material sourced specifically for this use. This is an under $20 part so if it's a concern it's not a big deal to change it out.

I hope this helps.

sarc
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:01 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby sarc » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm

mattaiken MYS NKB wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:55 pm
sarc wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:33 am
mattaiken MYS NKB wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:42 am


Hi Hugh, The earliest shipments of the first season of Navigator bars had a depower main line where the brand determined there would be a longevity issue. This wasn't a break under load first time issue, more a longevity/wear issue. The bars have serial numbers so North and North dealers contacted consumer with the bars from early production and traded out bars or upgraded the part. The second generation and the third generation (2022) now being shipped have an even more durable depower line that will last longer. There are of course other upgrades to Gen II and Gen III.

If you want to DM me I'll help you source the new (current) generation DPML.

I work with North in the USA market and I don't believe I've seen the new DPML break on any of the newer bars but of course this is kiteboarding and like sailing, windsurfing, etc, etc these parts will fail over time on all brands and they should be replaced periodically. I'm sorry if you feel this part hasn't lasted well, but let's get it replaced.
Hi Mattaiken, any chance that North may switch to transparent sleeving tubes instead of black?
That's not something I've heard on any future plans but I can't claim to be in the inner-circle on R&D and testing. I will say with personal experience windsurf harness lines went transparent for a while (long time ago) and they look awful after some use. Scratched up, UV'd, etc. I understand there's a legacy concern from the first generation bars, but as someone with intimate first hand experience on wear of all things North I can tell you the current depower lines are bomber. I'll also add that the black material used is not some off the shelf PVC tubing but is a material sourced specifically for this use. This is an under $20 part so if it's a concern it's not a big deal to change it out.

I hope this helps.
Thanks Mattaiken. Hopefully someone in North higher-ups will read these posts. I've been using transparent PVC tube from the dollar store as my depower line sleeve for the past 2 years and it looks like new. I can see individual grains of sand on any place in it - after 2 years' use. Jus' sayin'

nixmatters
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:38 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Style: freeride. started foiling, not there yet
Gear: mostly custom made
Brand Affiliation: None currently
Has thanked: 237 times
Been thanked: 166 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby nixmatters » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:21 pm

sarc wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm

Thanks Mattaiken. Hopefully someone in North higher-ups will read these posts. I've been using transparent PVC tube from the dollar store as my depower line sleeve for the past 2 years and it looks like new. I can see individual grains of sand on any place in it - after 2 years' use. Jus' sayin'
Hey sarc, are you sure it's really PVC? Sounds Ike silicone to me.

Still flexible at lower temps?

Kitedicted
Medium Poster
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:14 pm
Kiting since: 2019
Gear: Naish Pivot 2020 11 & 8 m
Twintips: 138x41.5 & 133x39
Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby Kitedicted » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:09 pm

I think when my 21 nav is 1 yr old I will replace the mainline and inspect the line on the old to asses if there is any wear. The 2021 system seems very sealed off

sarc
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:01 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Broken 2020 North Navigator main line

Postby sarc » Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:09 am

nixmatters wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:21 pm
sarc wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm

Thanks Mattaiken. Hopefully someone in North higher-ups will read these posts. I've been using transparent PVC tube from the dollar store as my depower line sleeve for the past 2 years and it looks like new. I can see individual grains of sand on any place in it - after 2 years' use. Jus' sayin'
Hey sarc, are you sure it's really PVC? Sounds Ike silicone to me.

Still flexible at lower temps?
I tried different types of silicone tube, then PU (like a high pressure air hose) and finally PVC: not a garden hose, rather the material used in chemistry tubes, fish tank tubes etc. Just about the cheapest stuff you can find at the dollar store. PVC is the strongest and very easy to find in transparent tubes. This example is a North navigator bar with a Duotone chicken loop and a Q-Power 5mm leader line as the depower rope. Maybe 60+ sessions on it.

In this setup I have complete visual access to the depower rope and the safety line (the white/black thinner line). Never bothered me a bit having safety line hang outside the sleeving like this (kitelooping, waveriding etc.). I need to be able to see with my own eyes the state of any critical part that could compromise my safety, the safety of those around me and a 1000+ $ kite.
IMG_20220121_104655.jpg
p.s. I only kitesurf, and never below 10C air temp!
These users thanked the author sarc for the post:
Kitedicted (Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:33 pm)
Rating: 6.67%


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], jumptheshark, junebug, PeaBody, purdyd, watercamper and 6 guests