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So what's the story Mel

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So what's the story Mel

Postby Guest » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:14 pm

Yeah,
I've been reading all your expert advice on matters saftey,, then I read you be all dinged up from failure to release yo kite in a gust? So, I smell fish, what's the story Mel. Shit don't work? or is you the problem?,,don't get me wrong sorry your all dinged up, hope you recover soon, but then what? what's the story Mel?
monkey

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Re: So what's the story Mel

Postby RickI » Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:29 am

Monkey wrote:Yeah,
I've been reading all your expert advice on matters saftey,, then I read you be all dinged up from failure to release yo kite in a gust? So, I smell fish, what's the story Mel. Shit don't work? or is you the problem?,,don't get me wrong sorry your all dinged up, hope you recover soon, but then what? what's the story Mel?
monkey
Having been dinged up myself, more than once, here is your answer:

KITEBOARDING CAN BE DANGEROUS

and it can nail the best of us, even you. The ways that this can happen are too numerous to summarize easily and are still be discovered. Any questions?

Of course Mel has spent a fair amount time over MANY YEARS, trying to reduce the chances of people being injured and preserve our ability to ride, even you. It is too bad that you don't show all that much consideration for his efforts. If you believe in what you are saying, back it up by signing with your actual name, like many of us do. It buys a ton more credibility than throwing attacks from hiding, under an alias.

Rick Iossi

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Re: So what's the story Mel

Postby kiteboarder@pacbell.net » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:05 am

"Monkey" wrote:
I've been reading all your expert advice on matters saftey,, then I read you be all dinged up from failure to release yo kite in a gust?
Is that a question?,,,

Failure to release did not cause my latest (spinal) injury.

During a different incident a while ago my own inability to activate my release FAST enough (even with the best, well-rigged, "practice every day" shackle) caused me to get dragged about 3m before release. There just happened to be a rock buried shallowly in the sand in the path of my ankle, which just happened to be exposed due to me cutting the worn-out tops off my boots the day before.

In that earlier incident a bar-activated release would have saved me from gashing my ankle, by reducing the release activation time (to nearly zero). In the latest incident, a bar-activated release could have allowed me to "punch out" when I landed a little 8' lofting immediately prior to the 20 footer that fractured my spine, but I'd bet I wouldn't have actually thought to activate it, thinking it unlikely to get lofted again immediately.
So, I smell fish, what's the story Mel. Shit don't work?
No, the "shit" worked well. In fact, the ability to quickly release after the injury probably saved my life. Even better "shit" could have helped, which is why I'm working on a simple bar-activated conversion for my Wichard 2673.
or is you the problem?,,
I guess you could say "I is the problem,,," since getting an OceanRodeo.com "punchout" bar (or converting my 2673 to bar-activation*) would have prevented the dragging, & avoiding flying momentarily through zenith would have prevented the lofting.

*although I hadn't thought of that until more recently
don't get me wrong sorry your all dinged up, hope you recover soon, but then what? what's the story Mel?
Then I'll go back to trying to be as safe as possible, with a bar-activated release, & avoiding zenith entirely (on land, releasing IMMEDIATELY* if I find myself at zenith accidentally).

*before there's a chance of getting lofted, even if it means my lines tangle & I miss a good session, since that's obviously much better than missing 8 weeks.

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Double loftings

Postby Stuvagas » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:52 am

sorry to post this in a mel flame.

But double loftings ie a smaller loft followed by a bigger one seem to be quite common. Its happened to me a couple of times, and I think it is caused by the kite siting down in the power zone when you land the first time. Then if you are unlucky enough another gust comes and completely launches you. much bigger then the first as your kite is now accelerating.

This is something all kiters should look out for have you got this situation mentioned in your safety guidelines Rick???


Stu

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Postby kiteboarder@pacbell.net » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:13 am

"Stuvagas" wrote:
sorry to post this in a mel flame.
I certainly don't mind (learning something new).
But double loftings ie a smaller loft followed by a bigger one seem to be quite common.
Thanks for letting us know.

Now that I DO know*, a bar-activated release would DEFINITELY help prevent a big lofting following a short one, since the instant activation capability would permit release the instant I land the first lofting, thereby preventing the second one.

*even though in my many small loftings (never more than about 4m before this latest one) I've never experienced it.

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Postby robertovillate » Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:26 am

sorry to post this in a mel flame.

But double loftings ie a smaller loft followed by a bigger one seem to be quite common. Its happened to me a couple of times, and I think it is caused by the kite siting down in the power zone when you land the first time. Then if you are unlucky enough another gust comes and completely launches you. much bigger then the first as your kite is now accelerating.

This is something all kiters should look out for have you got this situation mentioned in your safety guidelines Rick???


Stu
I can attest to the same thing happening to me while in Costa Rica in February. I was using a 7m kite and it was blowing a good 30 knots. I was trying to be extremely careful, kite flying at the edge of the window, edging hard when all of a sudden I got hit by a giant gust, well over 40 kts. I got lofted when the kite auto-zenithed and I got tossed downwind and hit the water HARD. Just when I was gathering my senses the kite was falling dead downwind and then ROCKETED back up to the zenith as soon as the lines tensioned. I went for a huge loft and landed hard again, which is when I pulled my Wipika QR. I was definitely the kites bitch at the moment. :cry:

Even though I was trying to be incredibly aware and ready there was absolutely no way for me to have reacted quickly enough to have avoided the first loft, and probably not the second loft either. Maybe next time (and I hope there isnt a next time) my instincts will help me deploy the QR faster.

Be careful out there guys and gals in the high winds. The small kites move super fast if you make a mistake, and the gusts can be extreme. I think the power increases exponentially as the wind increases, so be CAREFUL!!!!!

Roberto :thumb:

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Re: Double loftings

Postby RickI » Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:30 am

Stuvagas wrote:sorry to post this in a mel flame.

But double loftings ie a smaller loft followed by a bigger one seem to be quite common. Its happened to me a couple of times, and I think it is caused by the kite siting down in the power zone when you land the first time. Then if you are unlucky enough another gust comes and completely launches you. much bigger then the first as your kite is now accelerating.

This is something all kiters should look out for have you got this situation mentioned in your safety guidelines Rick???


Stu
Acting well in advance of trouble, while there is still time, is covered in multiple places. How to Try to Avoid Lofting also considers acting early with major emphasis on avoiding lofting in general. Several of the KSI accounts detail how riders actually were lofted or dragged, and sustained a reprieve from serious injury only to throw it away by remaining connected to a kite that soon repowers and injures them. I am reworking the "How to Try to Avoid Lofting" document and may throw in some more advanced ideas for possible minimization of consequences/injury during the fact of lofting. Things like kite control, transitions, depowering and decoupling timing, etc. All these after the fact ideas are highly theorectical in practice as you simply may not have enough time, have sufficient presence of mind, etc. The best course is strict avoidance but if it happens it could be useful to have some ideas to play upon.

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Re: So what's the story Mel

Postby fokiten » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:10 am

RickI wrote:
Monkey wrote:Yeah,
I've been reading all your expert advice on matters saftey,, then I read you be all dinged up from failure to release yo kite in a gust? So, I smell fish, what's the story Mel. Shit don't work? or is you the problem?,,don't get me wrong sorry your all dinged up, hope you recover soon, but then what? what's the story Mel?
monkey
Having been dinged up myself, more than once, here is your answer:

KITEBOARDING CAN BE DANGEROUS

and it can nail the best of us, even you. The ways that this can happen are too numerous to summarize easily and are still be discovered. Any questions?

Of course Mel has spent a fair amount time over MANY YEARS, trying to reduce the chances of people being injured and preserve our ability to ride, even you. It is too bad that you don't show all that much consideration for his efforts. If you believe in what you are saying, back it up by signing with your actual name, like many of us do. It buys a ton more credibility than throwing attacks from hiding, under an alias.

Rick Iossi

Hey Rick that was me fokiten,
I was not logged in and just could not be bothered to do so, so monkey made the post ,,ok?
well I I've been up your ass forever trying to make you knock off the exciting new sport bull-shit,, plus the kite night promotion crap for ever,, plus all this hype photo promo that you want to blend in the program ,,,,,SO you finally get it HUH???
This sport is a fucking killer,,,, ain't no recreational walk in the park IS IT??
Shit for brains????? Mels got it,,, you got it too,,, Mr wichard busts a move,,
Then you calling me a quack,,KISS MY ASS!! I been saying this for ever,, REMEMBER???
No bull shit now!!!! you get it right??? fokiten was telling the truth!!!! we are dangerous
To ourselves and to others do you believe me now safety dude??? ehh??
do ya??
fokiten

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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:46 am

Hi Mel sorry to hear about the back injury, get well soon man.
Sounds very similar to how I got lofted last year, just passing the kite past zenith after launching, I caught a small controlled loft, landing ok, then a massive horrizontal uncontrollable drag.
I think maybe this could be because the kite can fall back in the window after the first.
Now if I have to pass the kite past zenith I trim her down, depower and bend my knees so i'm almost sitting on the beach as she gets near zenith, rising a little as she passes zenith to take the tension out of the lines, seems to work.
Also I still have (I think Hernan's words ringing in my ears) "always expect to get lofted".
It seems that straight foils are less prone to lofting then LEis and probably ARcs too, maybe because they produce less lift flying trim, in fact you have to power up the bar to get lift out of them.
All the best
Jo

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Postby Toby » Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:56 am

Fo,

if we stay within certain rules, it is no killer.
But I guess some spots are not the best, so there you take your chance.
We can't depend on safety releases, but it also gives more chances to survive.

As we all know, the sport will never be 100% safe.
But who cares for the fun we have out there!
(driving a car is not 100% safeand it ain't not that much fun!)

Greets
Toby


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