Hey guys chill out...
It doesn't matter who was first, or who holds the patent...discussions like that are for people that are insecure and adolescent...
I'm a big tech freak and love all these new goodies, I'm not a customer that just buys one brand, but I like to keep all options open also on these 3 new kites... but I must say that Xbow is the kite that captures my attention the most at the moment. Maybe because they provide the most pictures and videos of their kite... I'm kind of missing that with the Nova...I wan't to know the details and have closeup pictures until I can see the real deal...there are some demo's also in the Netherlands soon and I will be there for sure...
The total depower seems nice, but what I really would like is the extended range that is promised...I really hate having to rig another kite when the wind pics up a little bit.
Bytheway... I see there are alot of tech people writing in this thread so maybe they can answer something I was wondering... If these kites can almost turn around a centerpoint that lies within the span of the kite...why not make the AR higher? It seems to me you want a fast turning kite, but higher AR kites have more speed and float. And I personally don't want a kite that will turn to fast...
cheers...
Amazing New Cabrinha
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bru
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Have to agree there denisk
If you want to check pictures out of the Nova - check out
http://www.ocean2air.co.za
If you want to check pictures out of the Nova - check out
http://www.ocean2air.co.za
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DrLightWind
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I was one of the earliest flyer who has beeen flying the Raptures,sq225917 wrote:take a closer look at the rapture, it has a bridle.... or more accurately a front attachment point line that effectively puts the pivot in front of the kite.
but I haven't noticed any bridals or "front attachment point line" on my production models yet,
just pure 4 lines.
I think that pivot point is built into the kite design for reverse relaunch purposes IMO.
DrLW
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kitezilla
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Here are some questions I would like answered before I get too excited over the likely aerodynamic efficiencies
of the flat wing shaped kite:
l. Does it self-launch from the beach in a nice controled mannor like the bucket shaped kites, or does it
stand up and tend to twist and fall over, thereby forcing you to do a hot launch? I have this kind of
problem with my RAM style kite, and it forces me to drag down the beach or run to get under
it. I would give up a lot of aerodynamic efficiency to not have this problem on self-launch.
2. Can you bend the wingtip over and pile sand on top of it, or is the bladder pressure so high that sand
has to be piled inside of it? In my experience, sand inside of the wingtip is a bad idea in that it tends to
stay there and throws the kite out of control on launch.
3. Does it have a re-ride type safety system for self-landing the kite in the water, which flags the kite out
flat and completely depowers it? Or is the safety system like the Flysurfer which pulls in the wingtips
and cups the kite resulting in residual power that pulls the rider? Do you have to do a secondary "pull-stop"
manuver where you wind up one line on the bar in order to get to the kite? Can one half of the kite foul in
some of the bridle lines and thereby take on an arc shape, and therefore stayed powered up, makeing self-rescue
difficult or impossible?
4. When a flat kite lands leading edge down on the water, it resembles a fence, and can more quickly be blown
over onto it's back, than a typical bucket kite with sides to help stabilize it. That would seem to facilitate
relaunching. However, when the flat kite lands on it's trailing edge and the same quick flipping over occurs, the
bridle lines get wrapped around the kite and allow the possibility of a wingtip threading its way through a bridle
line. On relaunch, can this turn the kite into a propeller shape causing dangerous looping? Will the safety
system still work?
5. On assisted landing, does the catcher grab the wingtip as though the kite is a RAM foil, or catch it like a
bucket type kite? Do the bridle lines tend to fall and tangle around the catcher? Can the flat wing be
flipped over and placed on the ground like a bucket kite? Will it suction itself to the ground or have to be
secured with weight? Where will the weight be placed? In more than one place on the leading edge or
at the wingtip?
6. On assisted launch, do the many bridle lines on the leading edge get in the way of the launcher's
grip as he moves along the leading edge, trying to find the balance point in preparation for release?
I have a lot more questions dealing with user friendlyness and safety. The launchs are getting more and
more crowded, and some have been closed. If this "new" flat wing kite design is not an advance
in user friendlyness and safety as well as aerodynamics, how much of an advance is it?
of the flat wing shaped kite:
l. Does it self-launch from the beach in a nice controled mannor like the bucket shaped kites, or does it
stand up and tend to twist and fall over, thereby forcing you to do a hot launch? I have this kind of
problem with my RAM style kite, and it forces me to drag down the beach or run to get under
it. I would give up a lot of aerodynamic efficiency to not have this problem on self-launch.
2. Can you bend the wingtip over and pile sand on top of it, or is the bladder pressure so high that sand
has to be piled inside of it? In my experience, sand inside of the wingtip is a bad idea in that it tends to
stay there and throws the kite out of control on launch.
3. Does it have a re-ride type safety system for self-landing the kite in the water, which flags the kite out
flat and completely depowers it? Or is the safety system like the Flysurfer which pulls in the wingtips
and cups the kite resulting in residual power that pulls the rider? Do you have to do a secondary "pull-stop"
manuver where you wind up one line on the bar in order to get to the kite? Can one half of the kite foul in
some of the bridle lines and thereby take on an arc shape, and therefore stayed powered up, makeing self-rescue
difficult or impossible?
4. When a flat kite lands leading edge down on the water, it resembles a fence, and can more quickly be blown
over onto it's back, than a typical bucket kite with sides to help stabilize it. That would seem to facilitate
relaunching. However, when the flat kite lands on it's trailing edge and the same quick flipping over occurs, the
bridle lines get wrapped around the kite and allow the possibility of a wingtip threading its way through a bridle
line. On relaunch, can this turn the kite into a propeller shape causing dangerous looping? Will the safety
system still work?
5. On assisted landing, does the catcher grab the wingtip as though the kite is a RAM foil, or catch it like a
bucket type kite? Do the bridle lines tend to fall and tangle around the catcher? Can the flat wing be
flipped over and placed on the ground like a bucket kite? Will it suction itself to the ground or have to be
secured with weight? Where will the weight be placed? In more than one place on the leading edge or
at the wingtip?
6. On assisted launch, do the many bridle lines on the leading edge get in the way of the launcher's
grip as he moves along the leading edge, trying to find the balance point in preparation for release?
I have a lot more questions dealing with user friendlyness and safety. The launchs are getting more and
more crowded, and some have been closed. If this "new" flat wing kite design is not an advance
in user friendlyness and safety as well as aerodynamics, how much of an advance is it?
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bru
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Okay Kitezilla I will give you my rundown from flying the Takoon Nova ...
1. self launch from the beach - yes - simply swing it round into the wind so it goes straight downwind from you - pull the back line for either side depending on the way you want to relaunch and the bridle pulls that end up - and it relaunches - it is as simple as that - I kid you not. I was very sceptical until I did it myself.
2. You can do this in theory it is not that diferrent to a LEI kite and it will work jus tensure that the bridle is not trapped under any of the kite ...
3. Self landing - let the bar go and the kite depowers and lands typically on the one wingtip - reach forward and greb the pair of front lines - walk up the lines pulling them in as you go - job done ! Again I have doen this it is as simple as I have outlined ...
4. Check out point 1 - but again simply pull one of the lines - the bridel enguages and liftw the wingtip out ...
5. There is a complete leading edge so it is no diff to a normal lei kite assisted landing
6. Generally not but if they did then untangle - it is pretty easy ...
Top of the list for the Nova design was SAFETY - and simplicity - if you get into trouble let the bar go and the kite drops out of the sky - to relaunch pull one of the back lines and up she comes !!
The above points are based on my experience -
1. self launch from the beach - yes - simply swing it round into the wind so it goes straight downwind from you - pull the back line for either side depending on the way you want to relaunch and the bridle pulls that end up - and it relaunches - it is as simple as that - I kid you not. I was very sceptical until I did it myself.
2. You can do this in theory it is not that diferrent to a LEI kite and it will work jus tensure that the bridle is not trapped under any of the kite ...
3. Self landing - let the bar go and the kite depowers and lands typically on the one wingtip - reach forward and greb the pair of front lines - walk up the lines pulling them in as you go - job done ! Again I have doen this it is as simple as I have outlined ...
4. Check out point 1 - but again simply pull one of the lines - the bridel enguages and liftw the wingtip out ...
5. There is a complete leading edge so it is no diff to a normal lei kite assisted landing
6. Generally not but if they did then untangle - it is pretty easy ...
Top of the list for the Nova design was SAFETY - and simplicity - if you get into trouble let the bar go and the kite drops out of the sky - to relaunch pull one of the back lines and up she comes !!
The above points are based on my experience -
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sq225917
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dr LW,maybe i've got the wrong kite in my head, i'll search the picture out.
weird...
have i totally mixed up two different kites here.?
i'm thinking of a line to the front pigtails, that then extends about 24" up the leading edge to another attachment, so when the lines go slack the front pigtail effectively comes forward of the leading edge.
weird...
have i totally mixed up two different kites here.?
i'm thinking of a line to the front pigtails, that then extends about 24" up the leading edge to another attachment, so when the lines go slack the front pigtail effectively comes forward of the leading edge.
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kitezilla
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Bru,
Thanks for trying to answer some of my concerns. I just went to another
kiteforum and found this:
http://nwkite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=381
Was this kite inversion problem the reviewer experienced unusual?
Is the Takoon bridle a lot different from the Crossbow?
Is there anyplace online that I can read the user manual for either the Nova or the Crossbow? I would really like to know how the safety system works.
You said to walk up the 2 front lines to the kite on self rescue. Can you
wind up just one front line on the bar if you are shy about grabbing kiteline
with your fingers?
Thanks for trying to answer some of my concerns. I just went to another
kiteforum and found this:
http://nwkite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=381
Was this kite inversion problem the reviewer experienced unusual?
Is the Takoon bridle a lot different from the Crossbow?
Is there anyplace online that I can read the user manual for either the Nova or the Crossbow? I would really like to know how the safety system works.
You said to walk up the 2 front lines to the kite on self rescue. Can you
wind up just one front line on the bar if you are shy about grabbing kiteline
with your fingers?
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bru
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There is a full pdf of the user manual for the Nova at http://www.ocean2air.co.za
I hear what you say about it inversion - I had no problems - not sure on the bridles
On self landing and walking up the lines - it was no problem - the closer I got I was able to swing the kite around so it faced the wind - but I had no problems - the bridles effectively removes power - have a look at the pdf ...
I hear what you say about it inversion - I had no problems - not sure on the bridles
On self landing and walking up the lines - it was no problem - the closer I got I was able to swing the kite around so it faced the wind - but I had no problems - the bridles effectively removes power - have a look at the pdf ...
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gonewiththewind
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You are thinking of the Windwing Rage II, which appears to be a fairly traditional bucket kite, but with the minimal rigging you described, has a huge amount of depower, like these new flat kites.sq225917 wrote:dr LW,maybe i've got the wrong kite in my head, i'll search the picture out.
weird...
have i totally mixed up two different kites here.?
i'm thinking of a line to the front pigtails, that then extends about 24" up the leading edge to another attachment, so when the lines go slack the front pigtail effectively comes forward of the leading edge.
The Windwing Rapture evidently has no rigging. It is accomplished solely through a flat kite shape and the position of the attachment points.