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50 or 60 cm bar to Venom ?

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Preppie
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50 or 60 cm bar to Venom ?

Postby Preppie » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:27 pm

- Last week i bought my Venom10 and 16 but only with one bar, which is the 50cm, and what i´ve heard is that its impossible to ride with this bar and the V16, is this correct? I haven´t had time to try yet.
- And an other question about the safety system on the bar; should i do some own modifications, because my old naish bar had in my opinon better solutions regarding for example the chickenloop quick release?
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rudeboysaude
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Postby rudeboysaude » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:43 pm

I think you'd be fine with the 50 for both kites.. I have a 60 for my Venom 19 but when I've used that thing for my 10 Venom it's way too much bar. The 10 turns like a race car regardless so the shorter the bar the better! In fact, I remember flying another kiters V16 on a smaller bar then my 60 and it worked fine.

I've never had any problems with the stock chickenloop either but I'm sure lots of people modify to suit their tastes.

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Postby FredBGG » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:52 pm

Hi

50cm bar should be just fine on the V16. I to have a 60cm bar on my V19, but the V16 turns faster and a 50cm bar should be just fine.

Regarding the safety release I would recommend shortening the metal pin for the release on the chicken loop. I shortened mine by 1cm (just under 1/1 an inch). It's important for this pin to come out quick when you need it. I have never had the short pin come out by accident.
With the longer pin you may have trouble pulling it out if you are being dragged and the chicken loop is under you.

One other important thing is if your bar has a D-shaped loop on the power adjusting strap don't run the leash through it.
From the photo it looks like your leash is going through there.
The leash can get stuck in this loop and the safety will not work.

One last thing. Put a stopper ball on the leash line (not the leash it's self).
This stopper ball must be placed just over 1 kite lenght from the bar end of the leash line. This will stop your bar from running to far up your lines when you activate the safety release. This is important if you need to use the release in the water and then want to retreive the bar to relaunch. It also makes it easier to pack up if you need to use the safety release to self land the kite.

for loads of info on Venoms from a bunch of Arcoholics you shpould join the arcusers group. It's at Yahoo groups. Great group.. realy helpfull users there. The Arcusers group is also mirrored at foilzone.com
You'll be able to see old posts there too.

Enjoy your Venoms, stay safe and use a helmet always :D :wink:

Cheers

Fred

Oh yea one more thing. Set the internal adjustment strap to i inch from "More Depower". This will keep the kite nice and fast. The kite will also fly furthur forward in the wind window making it easier to launch and go upwind. "More Depower" does not mean that you will have less power.
The strap setting is more about where the kite sits in the wind window. Setting the kite to less depower makes the kite sit furthur back in the wind window and more stiffness to the kite with better snap turning. Good for waves and more float time.

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Postby Preppie » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:11 pm

great, thanx guys for your help!

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Postby MonkeyAir » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:23 am

We use the 60 cm bar for all the venom sizes and it works very well. We even go to 25 and 20 m lines for wave and high wind applications on a 60 cm bar. The 50 cm bar will work on the 16V but the 60 has a definite benefit for quick turning in the lighter end of this size kites range. On the internal strap, there are differing views.
We have flown all forms of arcs and protos since the first and taught on them and many of our fellow students and local riders. If you are over 170 pounds, it is wise in our minds and if you have any experience edging, to put the strap on full power. You will go up wind just fine and have more grunt. This adds heaps to our puzzle with your V19 and your 230 pounds Fred. We never had any talks as you got your kite and lessons elsewhere. You HAVE to try it with the tight rear strap, this allows working the kite and power at the low end. This is why my 200 pounds and a 19 V on 25 meter lines and the little 5'10" twin fin is out when you are on your big 17 Speed and large board. You are allowing the back to open up loosly and spill power with the 19V. The strap DOES equate to power in MANY scenarios. Light, light wind is the biggest one. You have the weight and strength to edge against it. Even in the tightest setting, the V's fly upwind very well. You can huck the kite around far better with the strap tighter. Don't oversheet your kite. Sure it pulls upwind better in the loose setting but that is only a benefit if you are so light, you can't edge against the board and you just need to let the kite yank you up rather than actually edging. This is a problem with people used to the Phantom which shoots to the edge in a second. You are at the opposite end of that spectrum in weight. If you are under 170, try the strap looser. The type of board you have, ie. a board with directional fins that edge well for you or a twin tip with unknown length of rail and outline will make a difference. Don't mess with the stock quick release pin length either, it works just fine stock. The side quick release is a nice change over the use and loose type of hoops they and others used to use. Fred is absolutely correct about not using that d ring on the depower strap though. The ten is not overly fast by anyones standard that has flown any small, or high performance lei wave kites. The 60 cm puts it right there with those kites turning speed (on 25m lines, let alone stock 27's) but of couse the kite offers gust control and stability as well. As a new rider, it would make sense to use the 50 cm bar as the turning would seem quick relative to a 16 V. If you ever think your venoms turn slow, go a large bar with the strap tight for an eye opening experience on all the sizes.
Traig
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Postby jakobjth » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:14 am

MonkeyAir wrote:We use the 60 cm bar for all the venom sizes and it works very well. We even go to 25 and 20 m lines for wave and high wind applications on a 60 cm bar. The 50 cm bar will work on the 16V but the 60 has a definite benefit for quick turning in the lighter end of this size kites range. On the internal strap, there are differing views.

You HAVE to try it with the tight rear strap, this allows working the kite and power at the low end. This is why my 200 pounds and a 19 V on 25 meter lines and the little 5'10" twin fin is out when you are on your big 17 Speed and large board. You are allowing the back to open up loosly and spill power with the 19V. The strap DOES equate to power in MANY scenarios. Light, light wind is the biggest one.
This is not my experience with the internal strap on v16 or on the p18 either. Only thing the strap does in light wind is to slow down the kite so you can't build up apparent wind. Jumps are higher but more difficult to land...

I'm using a 65cm bar for my v16 and v10. No problem at all with the v10, even on 22m lines and in 30+ knots, verified and tested :wink:
Well it's more difficult in jumps with a big bar, kite redirects very fast so you have to be careful with steering & sheeting in the air...
50 cm should be perfect for the v10. On the v16 I wouldn't use anything shorter than 60cm.

/Jakob

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Postby MonkeyAir » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:19 pm

Hi Jakob.
Had the entire P quiver as well. Have you tried running your rear lines looser and the internal strap tight? The kites don't stall at all and apparent wind is increase by the ability to snap the kite around and keep it moving. I am talking 10 mph average and dropping to less on a 19 V. There is no way to keep the kite moving with the rear strap loose in this sort of stuff. The V 16 bottom end is far above this for my 200 pounds but the same holds true. If your kite stalls at all in these winds, it is most likely your sheeting range adjustment and the kite not being able to accelerate to the rear lines being excessively tightened. We play with these things daily and trade off on the same kites with different settings, etc. back to back. Once you have a steadier light wind as in the 12 average mph range and no low gusts, there is enough to work it with a looser rear strap but you still loose grunt. Watch the back of your kite when a gust hits with a tight or loose rear strap. You need every bit of this gusts power when the winds are light. Great kites. Very much a style of flying thing.

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Postby Starsky » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:41 pm

I have the same quiver (10/16) and love it. You really need a good lightwind board to get decent bottom end out of the 16. I have a 50 and 60 cm bar and use both on the 16. When powered I use the 50cm and in the kites bottom end range I use the 60. I have shorter lines on the 50 than the 60 and absolutely love the 16 on the short bar with shorter lines when there is enough wind. The shorter bar can be a bit agravating when underpowered though. If I were to give up one bar it would be the 50 as both kites work well on the 60. I just really like the feel of the small bar when the kites are powered up. Less fatigue on the forearms and the turning is great. In lower winds the 60 on 30m lines is the ticket for whiping the kite around to get going.

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Postby jakobjth » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:07 am

MonkeyAir wrote:Hi Jakob.
Had the entire P quiver as well. Have you tried running your rear lines looser and the internal strap tight? The kites don't stall at all and apparent wind is increase by the ability to snap the kite around and keep it moving. I am talking 10 mph average and dropping to less on a 19 V. There is no way to keep the kite moving with the rear strap loose in this sort of stuff. The V 16
Hi,
I'm normally very careful about tension on the rear lines as it's easy to stall the kite if you put to much tension on them. However I may get unother try with the rear strap a bit more tight.
From what I remember with the p18 I couldn't land the jumps if the strap was tight (kite redirected too slow in the air, obs in the light stuff 10-12mph). On the v16 I was pulled a lot downwind struggling to brake out the kite without loosing speed and upwind height. But with the strap tight the jumps were a lot higher than normal and redirecting the v16 is never a problem as it's a lot faster than the p18...
Btw: two days ago I tested the v16 with 34m lines (6m extensions, strap loose, wind was gusty 8-14mph) It was a very efficient way to increase the low end, and upwind performance was still ok...and jumps were very very floaty :D
/Jakob

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Postby jakobjth » Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:35 pm

I tried the v16 in light winds yesturday with strap 3/4 tight. Unfortunately I was right: It completely kills the power in the kite in light wind (we're talking 10mph winds now). Problem is that the kite is too slow to build up apparent wind. I landed the kite and loosened the strap completely, added 6m extension. In the same shitty wind I could with this configuration build up speed, go upwind and also jump... It can't be explained only with the addition of the extension lines. Kite is a LOT faster with the strap loose.
/Jakob


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