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schiffi
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push (punch) out; the only real solution?!

Postby schiffi » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:29 am

everyone does every day al lot of mistakes. This applies also to advanced kite-surfers. Straight perhaps because advanced kitesurfers compensate the advantage of the experience by do not pay attention so accurately to each detail like well trained beginners. In the long run it remains stating that in such a case the reliable possibility must be present of terminating the power of the kite.
With that ever more largely becoming number of accidents I can hardly understand one:
still most "safety systems" are at the loop, so that one must release the bar around it to serve. This is not at all possible in the fraction from seconds in those the decision is necessary.
Beyond that this is also with a correct decision not possible if pulled from the kite in a (usually) prone position .
Only a system to kill the power of the Kite by acting directly to the bar is in real emergency situations also really surely releasably.
A safe variant are those Bow kites, which are up-to-date praised in such a way for this reason.
In addition, with the classical tube-kites such a system should independently use to find. Enough variants of such push out - solutions are available (e.g. f-one, cabinha, ocean rodeo).
Also in the case described here it would have been possible for the Kiter to release such a system and terminate the emergency situation.

The manufacturers are in demand to solve the problem of an unintentional release constructionally. The new kites, which promise extreme depower effect, have so small tension on the steeringlines that this task should be easily solvable.

But one thing is for sure:
As long as we (kitesurfers) don`t really ask for it, they (companies) won`t invest in it.
And I`m sure that a lot of accidents could have been avoided with such easily and fast releasably safety-systems.

So please, let me know your opinion!

schiffi

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Lolo
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Postby Lolo » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:37 am

Well, I do not think the biggest mistake was to trust in the windmeter.
I think we all went out some days overpowered and had to come back fighting with kite power.

Anyway, nothing happened apart from a cut, it's ok.

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Postby Ismo » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:49 am

two very simply way to avoid this kind of nightmares:

1. keep lines, leashes, ... always connected

2. leash must break under extreme loads

I keep always my lines,leashes, connected in my ARCs, my friends keep their lines, leashes connected in their flysurfers

so lines, leashes are always OK!

I have even that 2. "insurance", my leash breaks about 40-50 kg load. so if I release my kite and something is wrong leash is released automaticly. this is possibly in ARC, because those have zero pull when in safety. so this can be possible in bow-kites?

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sflinux
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Postby sflinux » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:09 pm

It seems like a lot of problems happen near shore. I think if people start feeling overpowered, best to crash the kite at the edge of the window (at least 2 kite lengths from shore). Then after crashing the kite, unhook from the chicken loop (or pull the safety) to release the bar and hopefully depower the kite. If your buddy would have done that, less chance the kite would have been looping in the air. A kite in the water is going to have less pull then one in the air. And if he would have done this 2 kite lengths from shore, he would have had forgiving room if the kite would have continued pulling him towards shore.
Sad mistake. One good thing about the newer slingshot bars is they have "oh shit" handles on each side of the bar. So even if you accidentally hooked one incorrectly, the other one on the other side of the bar will still work. I like redundant safety systems. And yes, the newer slingshot bars have the 5th line as a leash which is setup differently.
When in doubt about the wind conditions, best to rig a smaller kite. And using a bigger board will help give a smaller kite more bottom end if feeling underpowered. (for e.x.: I can ride upwind on my 11M in 13 mph winds on my light wind board, me: 195#)

mbigger
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This incident happened to me

Postby mbigger » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:37 pm

I have rigged this kite many times and never made that mistake. I think what happened is that I probably reached to the line eyelett and for some reasons got distracted in the process and attached the leash to the bar.

I always land my kite to the edge of the window on my own if I do not have help from another kiter. Craig was running towards me to help while I was bringing the kite to the edge but I was being dragged pretty hard and decided to use the quick release to depower and land the kite.

I think the wind was much much stronger 50 to 100 feet up.

When the kite started spiralling I got yanked out of the water and had no time to pull on the last resort release. I was spinning so fast and bouncing up and down so hard, I had no clue where I was.

I think that when the kite landed I got a break and I started to pull on the leash just to reign in the kite and at that moment I released the kite...But I am not even certain of that because I was in another world.

I want to thank Craig and Doug for their help that day. I used to climb and I have decided to approach the sport with the same philosophy.

Michael

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CaptainArgh
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Postby CaptainArgh » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:54 pm

sflinux wrote:.... One good thing about the newer slingshot bars is they have "oh shit" handles on each side of the bar. So even if you accidentally hooked one incorrectly, the other one on the other side of the bar will still work. I like redundant safety systems. ....
That is a good reminder and something people easily forget about (who own SS kites).

In this example though, would it have helped? If he is attached to the fixed (non leash) eyehole on the right side, for instance, pulling on the left side oh-shit handle won't do him any good unless he remembers to pull his chicken loop release as well. The bar is still going to be held back by his leash. And, if he pulled the chicken loop release anyway he would have been okay...but it sounds like this was understandably tough in the situation.

Granted, still good to have more options, though!

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Bullroarer Took
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Re: Almost kitemare

Postby Bullroarer Took » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:11 pm

panchito wrote:
toddjb123 wrote:
MrBonk wrote: Are the Slingshot bar/lines still like this, or have they changed the design now?
On the '06 Turbo Diesel the leash connects to a point on the center line below the bar. So this would eliminate any confusion.

Not sure about the '06 Fuels, Octanes, etc.

I have '04/'05 kites and religiously double check that hookup every time I go out and it still scares the piss out of me that in haste I may connect to the wrong eyelet...just one of the things on my mental checklist. (lines clear, outside lines to trailing edge, leash connected to correct eyelit, surefire hook tested and engaged, cold beer in cooler, launcher knows to not release kite until I give thumbs up, etc...)
Yes. the new 5th line ends at a wave grenade ping where you attach your safety leash, also the new 06 bar comes with a quick release surefire bungee leash with a wire gate beaner.....better safety

Regards
Panchito, could you expand on this? It looked to me like the new Profire bar basically negated the use of the Surefire spreader, but it sounds like you are using them together. Has the leash from the Surefire spreader changed?

Also, if you have tension on the 5th line and activate the safety, does the 5th line still work as a leash? (I.e. does it disengage from the cleat?)

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Postby fokiten » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:29 pm

Regards,

This maxim " any port in a storm" does not apply to kitesurfers...

When you are caught with too much kite, you should not go to the shore,, that's the last place you want to be.

Please, think about it,,,,no wind event lasts forever so when caught just run with it,, and stick with the out bound tack.stay off-shore for your safety sake.

When it mellows you can come back...

It's seamanship 101, for Christ's sakes

Think about it

PSA
fokiten

PS. Consider that the problem really wasn't with the rigg it was with his thinking,,,I'm in trouble so I'll go back to shore and re-rig

You knuckle heads are the real problem,,,you've got shit for brains

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Postby mbigger » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:24 pm

I CAN'T BELIEVE what you posted Fokiten.

I did not come back to shore to re-rig. I came back to shore because it was unpleasant and I decided to pack it up. the wind never died down that afternoon.

I wish you could tell me this in my face.

Michael

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Postby fokiten » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:40 pm

O" do believe it,,

you're not the only reader out there as surely as you're not (by your bud's addmission) free from all mental error, which became a life threatening error courtesy of a

"lee shore".

I'm not saying you couldn't handle it I'm saying you didn't.

If shit for brains is not an issue here I'll stand corrected...

If not I've no regrets,,,

regrets,, lol

better luck,, you've surely some sort of a disservice comming,,

wouldn't you say?

eh?

Regards, glad you're still around to be mifted,, you'll have to get in line if you'd like to punch me out for pointing out our forever nemisis= e.g. shit fo brains..
you'll have plenty of company either way,,, so cheer-up!!,,,you're alive

Maybe make up a new username like? hm, Slowkitten and offically join the troop,,smile,,LOL,,

think it over,,regards

fo


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