Leading Edge Seam on the Waroo???

[FredBGG]

Dirty Dish

I think your questions are legitamate. Look at it this way.
Best tells users to pump up the leading edge of the Waroo much more than previous kites in order to minimize inversions, yet the kites have the
same leading edge construction of the Yarga a C-Kite that does not require extra high leading edge pressure. It would seem logical that higher leading edge pressure should be supported by better stiching.

I think you brought up a legitimate issue. Knee jerk reactions are
generally an indication that you have touched a delicate subject.

[DirtyDish]

Thank you BGG,

Logical, I think is the word I missed.

It is logical to review engineering in all regards.

It is logical that one should discuss issues with an experienced community.

It is logical that by talking about it the issue can be addressed.

It is logical that Toby has brought the entire world together to discuss kiting in a unique way.

It is logical that by disscussing issues in a world community like we have here, where all manufactureres are looking, that all manufacturers can contribute to a said issue together.

It is logical that this is the fasted way to get the broadest contributing opinion towards kiting than any other place?

It is logical that by communicating in such fashion raises the bar for the manufacturers because we are out here saying and opinion-ating their products in a way that other industries don't have to regard. In that, their contribution to said communication directly benefits us and them.

Is this not logical?

etc,etc,etc.

Thanks and apoligize. I will not use this word again today.

[KiteSurfingKen]

(*)(*) Guess Who?

I had a BFK blow the leading edge while resting flat on the water (6 weeks old).
Funny thing is, the bladder didn't pop, just came bulging through the 6 foot long hole (longitudinally along leading edge).
Best replaced it under warranty, quite quickly too. I was impressed with their turnaround, especially considering it was the windy season here.
I own 4 Best kites and this is the only problem with busting seems I have had to date.
My 16M BFK is my most used kite too.
One thing I noticed, the Nylon material had large reinforcing threads going lengthwise, but not around the diameter of the tube.
However it also tore through two taped seems, so I doubt the other threads would have helped.
I use a SS Pump w/gauge and had it pumped to 6PSI (my usual).
I now pump to 5PSI for the leading edge for my BFKs (just in case, no warranty left).

PS Mine did not bust at a seem, just along the leading edge material.

I am also considering a Waroo purchase, so I find this thread useful (to those who consider this thread bashing, buzz off). Considerring the number of Best kites sold, I think the blown seems is a small minority. Just my impression.

Ken

[ryansurf1]

I 've owned a bunch of Best kites...never a problem with LE's, stitching, seams or bladders....regardless of what is said about the quality.

I have two Waroos....both have had stitching let loose on the LE seam. Enough to cause me concern. First was replaced....the other is being replaced. You have to agree the company stands behind their product....good or bad.

Do i think this problem is endemic?...no. Do i know that for a fact...no. I think if the Waroo had a problem with LE seams the Best bashers would be screaming.....and there are more then one or two of those.

Look at the best site...i asked the same question. Almost no response tells me others aren't having the same problems. But Best is changing there seams for 07, which won't hurt my feelings any.

[occidental tourist]

I know the guy who had two Waroo 16 leading edges explode. The same day his second kite blew up a guy from connecticut put a way a Waroo 16 because the stitch was unraveling on the leading edge.

I don't know that this is a widespread problem but it is pretty widespread on this one beach in Rhode Island.

The guy is a good and experienced but very conservative kiter. He does a lot of flat riding smooth upwind work. He doesn't crash or stress his kites regularly or anything like that either from inexperience or from hot dogging.

One of the negative responses to this post was that there was no information about whether the company would make it right. Let me fill you in on that to date. They did replace his first kite and allowed as there could have been some stitching defect they are getting them made at very fast pace in China. He asked for explicit directions about inflation because he didn't want this to happen again and Best was noncomittal and ambiguous about how hard you should blow it up.

Now on the second one, they immediately started saying that only his first 3 month warranty applied so they are trying to get him ready for the idea they are not going to replace his kite. He had to wait a month for them to send him the new one because they didn't have any so he hasn't even had a Waroo 16 in his possession for three months.

Best has yet to respond to this point so I can't say whether they understand they should make this right, but should there be any suspicion about this guys skill or technique you should put that to bed right now. He is one of the longest standing riders in Rhode Island. Moved here to ride more. This is NOT someone who decided to start kiting and wants to ruin a few Waroos to learn at Best's expense.

Further, exploding stitching on the leading edge and saying that you have 'overbuilt' the 2007 (as opposed to admitting that the 2006 might be a little underbuilt) is not the kind of a problem you should be trying to shed by pointing to a three month warranty.

I know kites can be subject ot a lot of stresses and use beyond Best's control but there would generally be evidence of this abuse on the kite other than just having the leading edge stitching blow out. Best prices are fair. The performance of these kites has been excellent. MAny people fly them. I have seen threads where folks have bashed their marketing and so forth.

ALl of that is patently unfair. But this is a serious question for me and I was literally going to buy a Waroo 16 yesterday based on how well the kite had performed in flight for this guy. I called him to see if he had any recommendations and I did not know this blowout history as I was not at the beach either of those days. He has not been spreading this around or badmouthing Best. But he is mystified about this bad luck and I certainly cannot afford to invest in a kite without understanding whether this is a most unusual coincidence or not. I've never spent more than $350 for a kite and even used a Waroo would set me back twice my previous investments. This is too much to gamble without some response to this issue.

I am sure Best will respond so I am maintaining an open mind at this point.

Brian

[purdyd]

i just had my 12m waroo repaired, several spots on the leading edge had stitching pop loose

$30 repair at airtime (plus shipping)

Fred,

yes, the waroos take a lot of pressure but the diameter is smaller so the force on the threads is less

example 10 psi in a 8" diamtrer LE is like 5 psi in a 16" diamrter kite

i notice the rebel calls for 10 psi in the leading edge, it is also relatively small i assume?

i noticed on the waroo pro, the seam looks bullet proof

David

[eldadgold]

lets say you did call a certain compant about 3! stitches opening and there response was - send it over. we will fix this.
to fix it is about 10$ but you can't sell the kite ever again. no one will buy a kite with three different stitches opening.
will you put a thread here?
what will you do?

[Dax]

just had a repair done on my 7m LE seam at airtime. They blamed over pumping as the problem (they say that's usually what causes it.) If I had to guess I'd say I was pumping to 9 psi.

the fabric wasn't damaged it was just the seam coming out. so it was an easy fix.

[ScottM]

there's no need to over pump.

just pump the kite till it can hold it shape while being held it's side.

anymore is asking for trouble

[occidental tourist]

just had a repair done on my 7m LE seam at airtime. They blamed over pumping as the problem (they say that's usually what causes it.) If I had to guess I'd say I was pumping to 9 psi.

the fabric wasn't damaged it was just the seam coming out. so it was an easy fix.

But here is the problem. I thought Best told everybody to pump these up that hard. Maybe experience is that you can ride them at less pressure. Supposedly this was to keep shape to resist inversion. I have no idea if this is wives tale or not but I do know that Best refused to tell the guy how hard to pump his kite and said guages could vary.

That of course is true. In which case maybe they should work with a pump maker to offer a best pump with a guage they can stand behind. Especially if you got used to guaging like this then eventually you could probably take your cues from pump resistance and how the leading edge feels. Of course there is always the issue of air temperature changes in the bladder.

My guess is, if the kite needs to be made very hard it should have been 'overbuilt' in the leading edge and was not. It seems to me that now that Best has said they had "improved" (read "fixed") the design maybe the smartest thing they could do is offer half price or something like that on 2007 to any documented purchaser of 2006 and retire the 2006s. Then they don't flood the market with their old kites, cover the costs of getting theses 2007s out there if not a lot of profit but still maintain the reputation for the Waroo and the company and those of us who have stayed on the sidelines will be buying the waroos and the pros for full fare.

Brian