WHY PROS DONT RIDE BOWS

[mykrowyre]

I found the hard way that I was more likely to get worked launching unhooked. I was more likely to be overpowered, more likely to get pulled off balance, more likely to drop the kite onto someone else, and JUST as likely to get yanked hard and hurt...

I had several close calls launching unhooked... the problem is that when the kite launches and does something fast and unexpected (like loops), it will yank you HARD by your arms before you have a chance to let go... which means you are yanked up, over and head first into the ground. Since you are unhooked you can't depower as much as you could if you were hooked in... making things worse.

I had this happen when I first started riding. I picked the safest spot... soft sand away from everyone on a HUGE beach. Self launch, and my kite popped up in a strong gust and launched in the power zone before I was ready. I only had one hand on the bar with fingers lightly holding it. The sudden yank was enough to throw me 20 feet ... head first... and I landed on my head. It hurt like hell. I remember letting go of the bar immediately but it was already too late.

If I had been hooked in, I would have landed feet first or been dragged on my butt in the soft sand.

Every time I have had a bad launch hooked in, I was either able to get control of the kite by sheeting out, or dragged on my rear and able to pull my release in time ... because I always keep my finger in the release.

I'm not suggesting anyone change how they do things... only saying why I think so many people find launching hooked in safer. I know I do.

FWIW I spent 6 months preaching about the importance of launching unhooked ... until I had my a$$ handed to me a few times after doing so. Live and learn I guess.

[tommykite]

I found the hard way that I was more likely to get worked launching unhooked. I was more likely to be overpowered, more likely to get pulled off balance, more likely to drop the kite onto someone else, and JUST as likely to get yanked hard and hurt...

I had several close calls launching unhooked... the problem is that when the kite launches and does something fast and unexpected (like loops), it will yank you HARD by your arms before you have a chance to let go... which means you are yanked up, over and head first into the ground. Since you are unhooked you can't depower as much as you could if you were hooked in... making things worse.

I had this happen when I first started riding. I picked the safest spot... soft sand away from everyone on a HUGE beach. Self launch, and my kite popped up in a strong gust and launched in the power zone before I was ready. I only had one hand on the bar with fingers lightly holding it. The sudden yank was enough to throw me 20 feet ... head first... and I landed on my head. It hurt like hell. I remember letting go of the bar immediately but it was already too late.

If I had been hooked in, I would have landed feet first or been dragged on my butt in the soft sand.

Every time I have had a bad launch hooked in, I was either able to get control of the kite by sheeting out, or dragged on my rear and able to pull my release in time ... because I always keep my finger in the release.

I'm not suggesting anyone change how they do things... only saying why I think so many people find launching hooked in safer. I know I do.

FWIW I spent 6 months preaching about the importance of launching unhooked ... until I had my a$$ handed to me a few times after doing so. Live and learn I guess.

I agree for the same reasons and more.

Lauching unhooked is a shit idea just look at how most people get hurt in the sport...

If you cant don't or can't check your gear befor you launch you should'nt be out there.

[Tom183]

Launching unhooked was a valid concept on older designs, but time has marched on - with the newer designs, the balance has shifted and hooking in is the better option. But beginners need to be very sure they have rigged correctly...

[PeterP]

We had a girl get lofted and break her pelvis (I think) on a x-bow as she launched hooked in, unfortunately she somehow unhooked as she got the kite up. This resulted in a massive change in angle of attack and up she went. She wasn't expecting it and held on. Doubt it would have happened on a C.
Personally I launch hooked in out of old habit, but surely the safest would be to launch unhooked so you can just let go (if you are prepared for it). Only problem would be downwind bystanders I guess. Both have their dis- and advantages.

But I wonder if it affects any of the pros as to whether they use Bows????

[Windrider]

It sounds like her problem occured as a consequence of becoming unhooked.... not because the she launched hooked in, but because she became unexpectedly unhooked. Had she remained hooked in, it sounds like she would not have had a problem. If she had initially tried to launch unhooked, she might have been overpowered to begin with, let go of the kite and trashed someone downwind of her....

Being hooked in is what gives you control of the power. Not being hooked in means you cannot control the power of the kite.

Here.. try riding this spirited horse without reins..... If you drop the reins while riding, you will probably get thrown.... does that mean you should just get used to riding without the reins? No... it just means you should try not to drop them while riding....

Perhaps a donkey dick thing would have helped? Or, did she accidentally hit the quick release on the chicken loop? (I've heard of that one before...)

[KRW_fi]

Hello,

I cant say that i have red all 100 messages , so I may repeate something..
Actually, the question is not valid: why pros use different equipment than sunday-amateurs..

What is the situation in tennis, badminton, golf, soccer, I think almost every sport..

What has been the situation in kitesurfing? -amateur has two or three C-kites, maybe different brands.
Pros have had the kites they feel to need (of one brand).

When I play tennis, I play with Wilson as the most of world best players. But the rocket is not the same as Federer or somebody else.

If I pay golf, i may use the very same brand as Tiger Woods, but I think that the club/rocket is not the same..

so, at last, if we go to kitesurfing.. why I should use the same thing as the best of the world.. -if I'm not very very close to the best o f the world..

Other thing is the wind conditions;
If I'm professional, I will kitesurf where ever I have the perfect conditions.
But, I'm not professional, and don't have the money or time to go where ever is good wind..

So I have to buy every kite with my salary..
Our wind conditions are not very stable.
So I dont have time to buy 5-6 kites and 4-5 boards..

I like bows and SLEs e.g.

[surfingwithkites]

windrider writes: "It sounds like her problem occured as a consequence of becoming unhooked.... not because the she launched hooked in, but because she became unexpectedly unhooked. Had she remained hooked in, it sounds like she would not have had a problem. If she had initially tried to launch unhooked, she might have been overpowered to begin with, let go of the kite and trashed someone downwind of her....


This is not exactly accurate. Her problem was that she became unhooked but the danger was that she unhooked on a kite that was never designed to be ridden unhooked or launched unhooked. Accidently unhooking a bow is very dangerous. They often fall back in the window, fold in half, and then power up in an extremely dangerous way. It could be considered a major design flaw by some. Bridled kites have their own dangers in tanglings and accidental unhooking much more severely than with Cs. All bow riders should probably use donkey dicks or shackles or something to prevent getting hurt in this way.

Now the question is: Is it irresponsible to create and sell kites that can unhook if they should not be ridden unhooked and overpower suddenly and dangerously when they do?

Some bridled kites can be ridden unhooked if properly trimmed but not all can. Should manufacturers let people know if their kite is not meant for unhooked riding?

[Windrider]

I fly SLEs so I'm familiar with stalling. Are you thinking that's what happened to her.. her kite stalled? The only time I've had my SLEs stall is when I oversheet in extremely light wind (low range of kite). The way to reccover it is to let out the bar (or let go of bar). Either way, if you have a kite (bow, SLE, or C) unexpectedly power up on you, then solution is to let go of the bar and unhook (worst case)... i.e. bail out. If she didn't have the time/reflex to let go of the bar, she would've gotten trashed by any type of kite.

You're saying that there are bow/SLEs that will stall even when powered up if unhooked? I only know the Waroos. If I trim the de-power strap, I think I could unhook and ride powered up... never actually tried it, but I've tried sheeting in all the way down to chicken loop and riding like that. Works when the wind's up.

Definitely, the donkey dick is the way to go for me. It totally prevents the accidental un-hooking and subsequent issues.

[Peter_Frank]

windrider writes: "It sounds like her problem occured as a consequence of becoming unhooked.... not because the she launched hooked in, but because she became unexpectedly unhooked. Had she remained hooked in, it sounds like she would not have had a problem. If she had initially tried to launch unhooked, she might have been overpowered to begin with, let go of the kite and trashed someone downwind of her....


This is not exactly accurate. Her problem was that she became unhooked but the danger was that she unhooked on a kite that was never designed to be ridden unhooked or launched unhooked. Accidently unhooking a bow is very dangerous. They often fall back in the window, fold in half, and then power up in an extremely dangerous way. It could be considered a major design flaw by some. Bridled kites have their own dangers in tanglings and accidental unhooking much more severely than with Cs.

All bow riders should probably use donkey dicks or shackles or something to prevent getting hurt in this way.

No ! When riding unhooked you most often dont want a donkey dick to be in the way..
And why should you have a dd when you got your safety leash in the loop (or similar full depower device) ???
When launching a C kite, as well as a Bow kite - there is not much (if any ?) difference in the "risk" if your loop unhooks accidentally !
You dont know if it is too windy for the size, if you are the first one setting your kite up anyway - not matter if C or Bow.
And as said before - a flat kite can be depowered more when launching (or just when walking with the kite on land) and still controlled. A huge advantage used often. Not possible with a C

Both types must rely on being saved by letting go, if accidentally unhooked when launching, and the Bow will depower fully either in the CL or the depower line, and the C by the 5'th line (safety leash connection that is). Or directly to a front line on both types.

We are a bit away from the original topic now, with the launch risk - but still important, true.

:- ) Peter Frank


Now the question is: Is it irresponsible to create and sell kites that can unhook if they should not be ridden unhooked and overpower suddenly and dangerously when they do?

Some bridled kites can be ridden unhooked if properly trimmed but not all can. Should manufacturers let people know if their kite is not meant for unhooked riding?

[smoking_pipe@backyards]

I thought the topic was : Why Pro's don't ride Bows ?

The answer is and was: Yes they do.


KRW_fi wrote : " If I'm professional, I will kitesurf where ever I have the perfect conditions.
But, I'm not professional, and don't have the money or time to go where ever is good wind.."

It's not as easy as you write here KRW_fi. Most "Pro" riders don't even make enough money to fly home for Christmas. Maybe Ruben Lenten is the only lucky one.

Second. If you find a place where you have
perfect conditions more then 95% of the time, please let me know. (Side shore or side offshore winds 18-20mph with 10-12 foot waves, no reef please, and beach not banned from kiting).