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Would you like to see the return of the HELLFISH?

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Windrider
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Postby Windrider » Tue May 01, 2007 5:40 am

munteruk wrote:Now I think Best have come a long way since then (though their marketing still grates) but I don't think that refunding dissapointed buyers investment exhonerates them of all their sins during the hellfish episode. They set themselves up for a fall by fabricating hype and deliberately misleading kiters with misinformation. While I'm sure there are other instances of that happening in kiting the hellfish debacle was bigger than any I can think of.
And they recovered from their mistake through a focus on better products and better prices. The end result is that they've gone from a start-up to an industry leader in a few short years. Excellent job Best. Conscious effort to improve can payoff and benefit the industry.

What about the Turbo Diesel debacle? How did that manufacturer handle their poor design? Still in denial?

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Postby canefan » Tue May 01, 2007 6:24 am

I don't think the turbo donkey ever declared itself to be the best kite on the market by far with super duper material that is better than everything else. The hellfish SUCKED as a kite when you factor in the less than 30 day flight life. saw 3 blow up on the beach myself. One being pumped up by andy hurdman even. Best's marketing is suspect at the least but they do offer a decent kite at the cheapest price, no arguements from that. But even shannon doesn't call the hellfish anything but a mistake.
Been in this sport a bit now and i have to say the hellfish wasn't the worst flying kite i have flown, but definatly the shortest lifespan. The turbo diesal was just an utter crap of a kite imo though it would be crappy for a long time with slingshots good build quality :) But these Best bashing posts have definatly been around a lot longer than most of the currant flyers have been in the sport, i think even toby can agree to that. Just get a kite, rig it up and go flying. No reason to bash anyone period. Damn i need to get back on top of the water, been SCUBA diving too much recently...

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Postby munteruk » Tue May 01, 2007 8:43 am

Windrider wrote: What about the Turbo Diesel debacle? How did that manufacturer handle their poor design? Still in denial?
While not wanting to defend SS for the issues they've had with the TD and the Link, neither of these can be compared to the misinformation deliberately distributed during the hellfish debacle. As I said in my previous post - I'm sure there are examples of other manufacturers making mistakes, just none quite the magnitude of the hf.

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Postby kjo » Tue May 01, 2007 9:20 am

how about blowfish?

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Postby Windrider » Tue May 01, 2007 5:48 pm

munteruk wrote:
Windrider wrote: What about the Turbo Diesel debacle? How did that manufacturer handle their poor design? Still in denial?
While not wanting to defend SS for the issues they've had with the TD and the Link, neither of these can be compared to the misinformation deliberately distributed during the hellfish debacle. As I said in my previous post - I'm sure there are examples of other manufacturers making mistakes, just none quite the magnitude of the hf.
Depends on your perspective. Has SS ever admitted the poor design and poor performance? What compensation did they give to people who had bought the flop? Is SS yet admitting that it was a poor product, improperly tested, and released prematurely? Did they deny this for as period even though it had already become common knowledge?

Of course the Turbo Diesel situation can be compared to the Hell Fish. Both were failed products. It happens. The magnitude of both events is quite similar. You are just weighing them differently. For some reason, you want to leverage one as being much worse than the other, when, in fact, they were similar events.

How many TD's were sold? How many Hell Fish were sold? How many TD's were fully refunded? How many Hell Fish were fully refunded? How many TDs refunds included extra compensation to apologize for the screw up? How many HellFish refunds included extra compensation to apologize for the screw up? Subtract the "number refunded" from the "number sold" and you get how many customers were left screwed by the failed product.

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Postby nyckiteboarder » Tue May 01, 2007 6:02 pm

i had ordered an entire quiver but bailed aftaer hearing that 90% of them blew apart. if they can fix the construction issues and add a bridle or do a 5 line total depower version then bring it on!

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Postby Windrider » Tue May 01, 2007 6:16 pm

One thing interesting about the HellFish material was that I had talked with the Naish people here in Kailua when the Hell Fish was introduced, and they were predicting what would happen. They said that they had already done a lot of testing with that type of fabric and decided that it wasn't up to snuff to withstand normal usage. They were surprised that Best was giving it a go with that material when their (the Naish folks) test had shown it to be unworkable. They were watching interestedly to see if some new breakthrough had been achieved. But, alas, it hadn't. At least, they got the "I told you so" rights on that one.

When it was in the air, how did the HellFish fly? I thought I had heard that it actually performed very well. The material was the down fall, not the design. With TD, it seemed like the design was the downfall.

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Postby kitesurf66 » Tue May 01, 2007 6:46 pm

Windrider wrote:.... The material was the down fall, not the design. With TD, it seemed like the design was the downfall.
Right on brotha! You can add the link to that list too.

K66

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Postby sq225917 » Tue May 01, 2007 11:40 pm

back in the day we used to wind up the marketing crank before the kites were in production. so it wasn't out of the ordinary for kites to change after the first shout and prior to release.

in the case of the hellfish the canopy cloth went from the lighter silver to a heavier 'clear' cloth after the kite was announced and before it was released, hence the weight being off.

these days we don't announce product specification until it is ready to ship, and thats a long time after all the proto's have been through evaluation. it's a much longer process than it used to be, and it has to be as we drive quality and perfomance upwards with every new kite.

it wasn't the Cuben that lead to the failure with the hellfish, it was the LE seam not being able to take the pressure from the thin LE, if we'd waited 2 months then it would have had the Pro kite seams, which were bomber, as used in the Yarga and Nemesis Pro kites.

we've stuck with Cuben because it works, it allows Peter to design kites with performance that he couldn't deliver in Dacron. as time passes he gets better and better with the cloth and the new High performance kite is a revelation, even compared to the Waroo Pro.

you can jump up and down about the Hellfish as much as you like, we made a mistake, hands up, we paid for it, literally, and we replaced them all.

which is more than can be said for those other kites mentioned in the thread.

as to Naish saying 'we told you so', indeed they did, and then we proved it could be done with the YArga Pro the Nemesis Pro and the Waroo Pro. and in a few months time we'll do it again......

so thanks to all those riders who stuck by us, and everyone who helped point out our failings at the time, we listened and you helped make us what we are today..

not just better, but Best...

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Postby mbigger » Wed May 02, 2007 12:44 am

Yep...Then came the Waroo Pro. That kite Rocks! :thumb:

Michael


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