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helix vs cult

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Jano
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helix vs cult

Postby Jano » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:19 am

The main difference between helix and cult are the number of struts. 7 for the helix and 5 for the cult.

As gary said, "Helix is not a replacement for the shockwave, they said not only the design has nothing to do with it but the design objectives were totally different" The helix is a high performance kite in all aspecs! the cult is more a user friendly kite ... but don`t think is similar to the boxer sle.

And for Bkiter, NAISH IS FOR SURE ON A WINNER!!! You can`t imagine the performance of this kites.

The performance of a Sigma Kite with Geo Tech is superior to any bow, thats beacuse this concept keep the kite more stable than any bow...also forget about inversion!
Also with the Geo Tech the canopy becomes more cleaner and efficient.

GIVE ME 10 MY GOD!!!

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sq225917
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Postby sq225917 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:37 pm

more stable than any BOW, they might be right there,more stable than any SLE, i don't see it myself.

Stability is a function of bridle support, centre of effort and canopy profile all working to control pitching moment. Having a kink in the LE, by itself, doesn't make a damn bit of difference to this.

A stable bridled kite will fly straight off it's front lines with no back line tension with no problem at all, and eventually come to ground due to lack of stering input.

Kinking the LE doesn't affect this.

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Postby MissionMan » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:49 pm

sq225917 wrote: Kinking the LE doesn't affect this.
What? bring some weight further back wouldn't have a stabilizing effect? Come on SQ, you're smarter than that...

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Postby Mr Float » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:15 pm

sq225917 wrote:more stable than any BOW, they might be right there,more stable than any SLE, i don't see it myself.

Stability is a function of bridle support, centre of effort and canopy profile all working to control pitching moment. Having a kink in the LE, by itself, doesn't make a damn bit of difference to this.

A stable bridled kite will fly straight off it's front lines with no back line tension with no problem at all, and eventually come to ground due to lack of stering input.

Kinking the LE doesn't affect this.
Hmm interesting thoughts .yes youre right ,there is more than one way to skin a cat! the test in the market place is how well your way of skinning works and how one convinces the marketplace that your way of skinning the cat is the best.It will be interesting to see how well this pans out .(it interesting to read comments already that people can't wait for the 2nd gen helixy thingy)

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Postby funalex » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:37 pm

MissionMan wrote:
sq225917 wrote: Kinking the LE doesn't affect this.
What? bring some weight further back wouldn't have a stabilizing effect? Come on SQ, you're smarter than that...
I agree with "best", you can equalize the moment of an entire wing (the moment which make it fall from the sky) by adding a inverted pulley like on best or sonic...the kite will be very stable.

If you're moving the weight backward, it will become stable too...by without inverted pulley which regulate the moment, the kite won't be as stable as it could be with.

They moving the centre profile backward to change the profil depth and making a lower depth profile, make it more speed but less stable.

the other thing I don't really understand is how the geo-tech concept could make the canopy better ?? the canopy must be arc shaped, and I really don't understand how 2 big strait blader can help this !

See it on the water...no one has a video ?

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Postby eran m » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:16 pm

when the center of pressure(effort?)move back > more bar pressure?

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Postby BWD » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:45 pm

the canopy must be arc shaped,
Apparently not.
Years ago kiting seemed all about innovation and new ways to fly.
Convention seems to set in rather quickly.
Look outside your conventions/assumptions.
At least some designers still do!
Lots of wings work, arc/anhedral v. dihedral is a little piece of the picture.
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MissionMan
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Postby MissionMan » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:59 pm

funalex wrote:
MissionMan wrote:
sq225917 wrote: Kinking the LE doesn't affect this.
What? bring some weight further back wouldn't have a stabilizing effect? Come on SQ, you're smarter than that...
I agree with "best", you can equalize the moment of an entire wing (the moment which make it fall from the sky) by adding a inverted pulley like on best or sonic...the kite will be very stable.

If you're moving the weight backward, it will become stable too...by without inverted pulley which regulate the moment, the kite won't be as stable as it could be with.

They moving the centre profile backward to change the profil depth and making a lower depth profile, make it more speed but less stable.

the other thing I don't really understand is how the geo-tech concept could make the canopy better ?? the canopy must be arc shaped, and I really don't understand how 2 big strait blader can help this !

See it on the water...no one has a video ?
May want to rethink that argument, you contradicted yourself.

Also interested, that the last time Best and SQ blew a concept out the water on this forum, they ended up making one themselves. Remember all the anti-flat kite speak from SQ about how it would fail and the fact that it slides through turns etc etc etc. Suddenly they release one themselves (which the market dictated). Best don't exactly have a good rep for supporting concepts that are using currently.

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ScottM
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Postby ScottM » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:06 pm

yeah you've got to give Naish their dues, if the kite brings something new to the table and works, then they will deserve the sales success from going another direction, just as Cabrinha did. I think the kite looks pretty wild, I imagine I'll have a bit of kite envy!! :evil:

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Postby Nino_fs » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:48 pm

I was also wondering about the straight leading edge. I can't get a good idea from the pictures. if you are looking at the kite straight on in such away that the leading edge is the closest thing to you and the trailing edge is the farthest away. If you don't know what I mean try this, the kite is flying straight at you.

If they are straight that seems like a really poor idea because the natural shape for a kite is a perfect semicircle arc. So a straight non curved bladder would have to work against that natural shape. Not to mention it is likely that the trailing edge would just flare out to the normal arc shape anyway because it has nothing forcing it to hold that strange hedron shape.


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