China, Kites and Greenhouse Gases

[Mulholland]

American forces in Irak have killed 10s of thousands of women, children and innocent men. It was not their target, but they did it.

Collateral damage is nothing new in war, but the American military has gone to extraordinary lengths to assure as few noncombatant casualties as possible. I think you are mistaking Iraqis killed by Iraqis and Islamofascists, and deaths caused by terrorists hiding amongst civilian populations, with the American military...This war, on any objective measure, is by far the most humantarian war ever fought by America.

The civil war that followed the american occupation is causing thousands of deaths. This wasn't their target either, but they were criminally incompetent.

The Iraqis have been given a chance at freedom, and freedom has always had a cost. America's civil war cost over 400,000 lives, and nobody argues if it was worth it or not. There was no criminal incompetence, there is however criminal sabotage and treason by those wishing to undermine the war.

According to US government agencies, the invasion of Irak has been a total failure; terrorism is now much stronger than before.

Really? Remaking a country is not a cup-o-noodles, where you just add water and "bang" you have lunch...It is very complicated...We have toppled a dictator, rebuilt infrastructure, set up a democracy, killed terrorists and are training Iraqis how to live in freedom...a freedom they wouldn't have if the murderous dictator Saddam was still in charge, a freedom they wouldn't have if the neo-socialists in America have their way and we leave.

By any objective and rational measure it has been nothing but astoundingly successful -- of course those opposed to our success (American democrats/media) tell a different story because they want power, which necessitates us losing in Iraq (which they desperately want).

Osama Bin Laden has won, unfortunately.
People like you are Osama's wet dream.

No, people like you are Osama's wet dream. He counted on American and foreign liberal types to cower and run in fear. He expected us to fold like Clinton did in Mogadishu. Osama even justified 9-11 with this fact...People like me are his worst nightmare, and why he is in hiding to this day. He will die soon, if he isn't already dead.

[Halomon]

Let's take an informal Kite Forum Pole; ...Are for FOR Bush and the Iraq War or are you AGAINST Bush and the Iraq War???? I'm against!!! Bring our troops home and we'll fight on our own shores....

[KOOK]

well this thread started out in the right direction but landed off course!!!!
we the human race have only been indulging this sweet planet for max 100000 yrs and really making a mess in the last 200 yrs, but we are mere mortals and this planet has seen the extinction of many creatures who thought themselves invincable!
the earth will heal itself for it acts and is a living being,there will be more tornados hurricane cyclones and severe flooding the human pathogenic problem will be fixed up just as the dinosar problem was fixed up .those areas which make the most pollution will sure as hell be hit the hardest
so china and the usa should prepare for major 'natural disasters"
hopefully we will correct this before it happens but we are running out of time

[Another Toby]

.those areas which make the most pollution will sure as hell be hit the hardest

Unfortunately that's not true. Climate change threatens to wipe out polar ice sheets, submerge low lying islands and countries, and leave coral reefs dead in areas that humans rarely if ever visit.

Mul, you're foaming at the mouth...please try to stay on topic, this one is about manufacturing goods in china causing pollution problems and rapidly increasing china's greenhouse gas emissions....not about pretzels of mass destruction.....

[KOOK]

to another toby

look at the statistics lad
the us has been" attcked' by hurricanes and tornadoes and its just the start and each year its getting stiffer ask the guys in new orleans about a hurricane

[kiterguy]

Mulholland......I agree with your arguments. Without capitalism, very simply, kiting would not be available to the general public as it is today. In theory, yes, we should help those that TRULY need help, as I am sure the majority of us here try to do to the best of our abilities. Too often though, people make bad or lazy decisions (i.e. party through high school vs. study and get good grades to go to college, etc) and then.....work very little through there 20's at improving their contributory value to the work force, only to wine in their mid 30's about in-equality. Meanwhile, politicians pander to these people over and over again stating that they will take from the rich and give to the "working class". BTW, to be in the "working class", you have to make less than such and such a year, and if you make more than that, you are no classified as being in the "working class"......as if those that make more don't work as hard, while in reality, most that make more have consistently, throughout there life, made sacrifices and put in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to be where they are at. And who benefits from this hard work and dedication?, whoever the client/consumer is. Which, at some point is all of us.

Also, not to be classified as a "warming denier", but what influence does the our Sun have in this (our Sun has been going through a period of more solar activity......and Mars and Pluto are getting warmer too, are we causing that as well)? I think it is a bit arrogant to say that we are, exclusively, without a doubt causing global warming. Plus, whose to say that the current temps are the "primo temps" for Earth, never to be changed again? And who gets to decide this? Where one life form perishes, another comes along and thrives. Alwyas has been that way, always will be that way, whether we are here or not. The Earth always has been and always will be in flux. But Al Gore doesn't fool me for one second into thinking HE really cares.......although he did invent the internet.

[Another Toby]

look at the statistics lad
the us has been" attcked' by hurricanes and tornadoes and its just the start and each year its getting stiffer ask the guys in new orleans about a hurricane

If only the Earth had some kind of polluter pays, natural disaster, vengeance system. IMO The people that will suffer the most are those living on the edge, eg. Tuvalu, and those with the highest to fall back to earth.

kiterguy, you might like to do a little research into "Global Warming".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
"who decides?" you ask...not Fox News. Science decides. Brush up on a bit of paleoclimatology.

[kiterguy]

Another Toby:

I usually question Scientific Consensus, given the fact that most are funded by agenda driven grants to conclude as such. Listen, I have not made up my mind on all of it. Maybe we are causing a bit of warming, maybe we are not. We in Florida were recently doused in carbon rich smoke from forest fires day in and day out for weeks and weeks (a natural process here on Mother Earth). In contrast, every time I go up in a plane, at 35,000 feet I look down, and even over cities, can't even see the cars on the ground, or smoke stacks, supposedly spewing out all of this polution.

Kinda like the ant who crawled up the elephant's leg to have his way with it, saying suffer big mama....just suffer.

..........(my point is, we are still pretty minute in our powers and impact, even as far as we've come along), not to mention the earth sheds (renews) a certain percentage of its atmosphere year after year into space. I am keeping an open mind, and just ask that others do to, while not telling me what I can and cant do, i.e. with this carbon footprint bs. To tell me what I should or shouldn't do, based on YOUR belief(another Toby, not you specifically) is the height of arrogance, IMO. Interesting topic though.

[tristonjah]

Plant a tree

[Feng]

But Al Gore doesn't fool me for one second into thinking HE really cares.......although he did invent the internet.

Al Gore did not invent the Internet.
The Internet as the general public knows it is based on HTTP and its associated function.
HTTP was invented at the CERN (Physicac European Research Center in Switzland).

But one thing US has invented is :a terrorist production line:
1) you take a small group of guys in a remote country.
2) you train them to fight the Russian during the Afganistan War
3) After the Russian retreat you just give a shit to what happends to Afganistan.
4) People with a different agenda takes control of Afganistan and a small group of them plot 3 plane suicide bombings.
5) By he way the those guys were comming from Arabia Saoudia whose rullers are a good friends (contributors ?) to Bush Father+Son
6) You crash those guys in Afganistan
7) But as the Bush-Son needs to show off to his father, you decide to attack a country (Irak) which has nothing to do with the suicide attack and to explain this attack you build false intelligence and reports.
8 ) You create a mess in this country that become a training camp for all will be terroriste.
9) It you take a young guys with no real work prospect, you tell him that he will be rewarded after death and he is acting for its people/faith/etc then he will be happy to fight. If on the top of this you give him esasy access to its enemy (the American Soldier in Irak) then he will soon become a very efficient and motivated fighter.
10) You create in Irak a very good training groud for a whole range a guys with different kind of agenda. And as soon as the US will retreat from Irak (I guess at some point the Amarican familly we become tired to have their sons killed or butchered for nothing) then those highly trained fighter will have nothing to do in Irak and will come back to their own country to start to make a real mess.

Thanks for Bush and his Terrorist Educationnal program!!

The only possible good output would be that amoung those fighters there are Muslim Chinese that will start back in their counter to create another mess in China that would eventually lead to the collapse of the Chinese Communist Party and the split of China is some autonomous region (this is a regular pattern in China history).
So to come back to our primary subject, each of this autonomous region will polute less than the US and US will become again number 1 poluter so can start to take the global warming seriously.