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TIME For A Standardized QUICK RELEASE?

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purdyd
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Postby purdyd » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:02 pm

bokie wrote:The Flexifoil release is extremely simple and easy to reload.
Looks similar to the Cabrihna setup but no metal parts on the c loop.
I don't I agree with the patent criteria.
If a system works and can be classified as industry standard, it should be used regardless.

Cheers
Mike


the flexifoil is like the cabrinha i personally vote for metal on metal but either one is the right idea

if you go to the bow and inflatable kite patent holder site - diamond white - you will read
Note: The Legaignoux brothers have never patented the safety devices they have worked out and which equip or equipped most of the bars on the market, to favour their diffusion.
i don't think we are asking the developer not to get paid for their efforts, that should obviously be amortized in the cost of the device

we the consumers are simply asking for some, what i think, are some minimal standards for safety and convenience

colored lines - contrasting color on the bar left right - red on left - standard kook proof connectors - standard quick release

the minimal specs should be

releaseable under no load with one hand
accessible from 360 degrees
should be able to reassemble with one hand
release mechanism must be red colored
i believe the French have a standard for maximum release force
and it should survive 1000 lbs static force without releasing or damage

David

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Neight
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Postby Neight » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:50 am

kitezilla wrote:
Neight wrote:NEW kiteboardings Nuclear bar is good.
Appart from a bunch of cool features like soft bar ends, solid stainless steel center inserts on a reduced diameter bar which is smaller than most brands and load tested.
It also has this adjustable loop that doesnt fall off when released and is easy to reassemble when in the water. Its mounted on a plastic tube so your depower rope doesnt wear out and there's a small cleat to notch of the Neutralizer 5 line. Obviously there's minimal parts.
.......................................


Neight,

I have 3 questions for you:

(1) Is that a little piece of plastic tubing on the side gated snap shackle, similar to the tinkered up home-made "locking gated" carabiner as shown in the picture here?

(2) If so, does it come as standard equipment?

(3) Does the plastic tube slide up, to block the gate from opening, and thereby, preventing accidental line entrapment? Or is there some other reason for the little plastic piece?
Hi Kitezilla,
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes.

Im thinking I should have kept this to myself now. :wink:
There's plenty more product details and the Nuclear bar can be bought on http://www.newkiteboarding.com

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KAWIKA
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chicken loop

Postby KAWIKA » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:37 am

This is the 08 quick release with kill switch fom eclipse is by far the safest system out there and the easiest to put back together check out the videos at http://www.eclipsekites .com Dimtri + chris spent a lot of time designing this quick realease and like everything else all the other companys will copy it ECLIPSE MADE BY THE RIDERS FOR THE RIDERS!
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Postby RipItUp » Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:00 am

A agree, I think the Eclipse QR is a great choice except for the finger loop. Finger loops should disappear completely from all bar setups. That includes Oh Shit loops and even adjusting straps could be done with balls and not loops. Loops are hard to grab quickly and can easily snag on obstacles and debris. The substitute should be a plastic ball attached to a line or strap instead of loops. The nice thing about the new Eclipse release is the ease of release and it only takes one hand to put it back together. It gets my vote.

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purdyd
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Re: chicken loop

Postby purdyd » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:23 pm

KAWIKA wrote:This is the 08 quick release with kill switch fom eclipse is by far the safest system out there and the easiest to put back together check out the videos at http://www.eclipsekites .com Dimtri + chris spent a lot of time designing this quick realease and like everything else all the other companys will copy it ECLIPSE MADE BY THE RIDERS FOR THE RIDERS!
i see several problems with what is probabaly an excellent release

it is all black so you can't see the loop - it should be red

it is a pull system so if you have slack lines - it may require two hands and some fumbling

being able to quickly get out of a slack line situation is very important

the release is only accessible from one side

Best may have actually built one of the better systems for their unreleased 2008 bar - time will tell

Image

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Postby Mikell » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:07 am

It probably has already been mentioned in the thread, but a QR must be functioning 100% also with slack lines, therefore has to be a push-away- something from your hook rather than a pull-towards design that depends on line tension.

I know of at least one nasty accident in the older days, where a kite tumbling out of the sky in turbulent "holy" conditions (and then of course powering up again deep in the power zone) could not be released due to lacking line tension.


Mikell

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tautologies
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Postby tautologies » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:19 am

Kawika
I think it is pretty unreasonable to say that the Eclipse CL is "is by far the safest system out there and the easiest to put back together" as there is really isn't any neutral data to support such a claim.

I also agree that the finger loop is not the best option for a qiuck release, as stated by people who's had theirs rip while trying to release.
Apart from that it might be a very good CL, but categorically the best...I don;t think so. Oh and by the way, I think most kites in this industry is developed BY kiters...and FOR kiters...anything else would be silly.

I think there are probably many very good solutions, and I am hesitant to agree that we should standardize the release. I still think we are so early in the development process of safe kite equipment that standardizing such equipment would not only hinder development and innovation but also to some degree function as pillow in which the companies can sleep. I think we should instead use forums like this to gather information look for solutions, and instead show companies that we actually do pay attention to their product, and that launching a product that isn't tested properly affect their sales. I am sure they know that already, but we have seen many examples of this on this very forum, where users has posted their experiences, and it has affected and demanded a response from the companies. I think this is actually the best way to secure good innovation. It is also ALWAYS the rider's responsibility to know the gear he / she goes out on. If you don't know how to release the CL you probably shouldn't have taken the kite out in the first place.

Overall I've been happy with both the Naish and SS bars I've had..never had any problems....I had an early best bar that I didn't like so much, but the newer one looks better. I am not sure if I like the pull the pulg king of release that SS has on their newer bars...to me it is more intuitive to release by pushing away the CL (North / Naish)...easy to grip, and I wouldn't do it by accident like I've seen people do when they have the depower on the opposite side of the release. Now this is my personal preference, but I realize people are different. In anycase, while taking out a bar that I am not familiar with, it is still my responsibility to familiraize myself with the gear....it will not do it for me....well I guess unless you have Nak's spreaderbar that actually releases the spreaderbar hook when there is too much power.... :-)


We should also be vigilant in testing our gear BEFORE we come in the situation where we need to work flawlessly. I actually do test my release every now and then. I look at the parts to see if anything look worn out, and I make sure that things atleast seems to be working. So far this approach has kept me out of serious accedents.

My 5cents...I guess it is more like 35 cents...but anyways...
A.

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Postby knyfe » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:56 am

an excellent thread to a very important matter. THNX RickI to bring that up. Actually I would like to add another system which is by design wonderful for 5th line users. Typically you run in the problem that the 5th winds up around the center line (North, SlingS) and by that increases the chance that something gets messed up. I think Carved is the only one company which sells the tangle free solution I have seen so far. As it is a small german brand its not used that frequently with a small chance to get any complains as the fans are furious about their product.

ImageImage
this one or their other version

NOTE that I really would like to have this system but so far could never afford it. I only read that it works fine.

But it brings up even more difficulties here as we now need to split into 4 and 5th line systems and all associated pro and con of 4 vs 5 lines on safety.

G

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Postby MissionMan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:13 am

There is one major issue I have with the push designs which is why I have thusfas favoured other designs...they force you to have the depower toggles above the bar and to me that is a load of crap. when you are overpowered and having to stretch for toggles out of reach, thats just bad. To top it off, sometime your stopper gets in the way of trying to pull down on the depower ropes.

Naish are the first guys to come up with a design (smartloop - finally someone has done it) that seems to incorporate the depower in a chicken loop so you don't have to have the toggles on top. That is a design I can work with. As for the rest of the designs including the cabrinha, they may release well, but other than releasing they disadvantage you and that doesn't work for me so I would never buy a design like that.

One thing people are forgetting here is that by standardising design you limit creativity in new designs. Standards mean development stops, and that may not be all good.

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purdyd
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Postby purdyd » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:21 am

MissionMan wrote:There is one major issue I have with the push designs which is why I have thusfas favoured other designs...they force you to have the depower toggles above the bar and to me that is a load of crap.

Naish are the first guys to come up with a design (smartloop - finally someone has done it) that seems to incorporate the depower in a chicken loop so you don't have to have the toggles on top. .
there is nothing about a push system that forces the depower cleat above the bar

example Naish - that is a push release system - below the bar sheeting systems have existed for years

i think it is pretty obvious that in some cases standards push innovation

in the case of Naish and others I think the French standard for quick releases is pushing designers to the better designs we are seeing today

David


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