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North bar setup for Evo

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Toomas
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North bar setup for Evo

Postby Toomas » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:58 am

Hi

Can anyone comment on what is the difference in Evo bar comparing with other North bars? It seems pretty similar to Scepter bar, but I guess 2008 Scepter bar uses one front line as safety line while Evo seems to pull in both center lines if released on safety. Is that true?

I am thinking of buying Evo 9m but hesitating do I really need the new bar or can I just order kite only and use my existing 2006 5th Element bar. I am also considering re-rigging the existing 5th Element bar to 4 lines (by replacing the center/frontlines and 5th line with normal two frontlines). Would there be any problem I have missed?

Is there any benefit of Evo bar I would loose? At the moment I cant see any significant feature. It seems that Evo bar unfortunately also does not have the adjustable stopper (that would be a benefit). Can anyone share the picture of Evo bar setup or post a link? I would be very thankful. A lot of questions, but I was not able to find a good picture or scheme of Evo bar setup anywhere.

Thanks a lot for any comments!

Best regards,
Toomas

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Dwight » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:18 am

The geometry of the front lines with a Y, versus front lines going direct from the bar, alters the front line to rear line relative lengths. So it may take some tunning on your part to make it work.

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Toomas » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Thanks, Dwight!
If the front lines are Y shape, perhaps I can even keep the 5th Element center line in place and can do nothing except for removing the 5th line? The front lines of 5th Element are also Y shaped.

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Dwight » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:02 pm

Toomas wrote:Thanks, Dwight!
If the front lines are Y shape, perhaps I can even keep the 5th Element center line in place and can do nothing except for removing the 5th line? The front lines of 5th Element are also Y shaped.
The Y is lower on the EVO bar compared to the 5th E bar. It might require some slight adjustment to work. 2 inches maybe.

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby duckypoos » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:47 pm

Hi , i use my 08 5th element bar on a 9m evo which is exactly the same (line lengths) as my old 06 bar , i had to lengthen the back lines one knot about 2 inches and also increase the 5th line length about 4 inches as there is no adjustment above the Y split .Even though the kite should fly on the new 5th el bar i found the 5th line was to short and pulled the LE flat when sheeting in. I have borrowed a 4 line evo bar and the difference in flight is nothing , well not noticable to a non pro rider!! but i do prefer the less complicated 4 line setup so start saving again .

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Toomas » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:51 pm

I found some comments from Foxy concerning the Evo setup

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2344760&st=0&sk=t&s ... r&start=20

It appears that Evo has a stopper ball. So the combination of 4 lines and stopper is appealing enough for me to pay the extra price and to go for the Evo bar instead of rigging the old bars.

Perhaps in some conditions I can also use the 5th element, so your tips are very helpful to make the relevant adjustmets.

Regards,
Toomas

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Foxi » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:00 pm

check this out to properly understand the pseudo-5th-line ending up some 4m above the adjuster.
Scepter bar is a different safety approach in my view.

Image

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Toomas » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:04 pm

This is very good and clear scheme, Foxy.

I understand that the distance between the bar and attachment point of the safety line is imortant for complete depower. However, if I look at the picture I guess that the new Scepter bar safety should also work (release on one frontline). The frontline attachment points at the kite seem to be towards the center enough that the kite would flip over and depower on one frontline. But this is a guess only based on picture and experience with Ozone Instinct 2006.

Instinct's original safety also based on two front lines + 5th line (5th line in Ozone case does not work as safety but only supports the LE). I custom rigged the bar so that I have safety on one frontline. It actually works pretty similar as "true" 5th line safety on C-kites, the kite flips over to U position, a bit uneven U but still good enough to kill the power.

I usually self launch and self land, so I have learned to trust the release on one line better than "full depower"-type of safety, if something goes wrong. Problem with depower-type of safety is that if the kite craches down nose first directly in the center of the power zone, you can still get dragged in worst case scenario even after pulling the safety. Let's see how it works on Evo's case, but I would not be surprised if I still choose to modify the EVO bar to enable release on one frontline.

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Foxi » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:55 pm

Toomas wrote:This is very good and clear scheme, Foxy.

I understand that the distance between the bar and attachment point of the safety line is imortant for complete depower. However, if I look at the picture I guess that the new Scepter bar safety should also work (release on one frontline). The frontline attachment points at the kite seem to be towards the center enough that the kite would flip over and depower on one frontline. But this is a guess only based on picture and experience with Ozone Instinct 2006.

Instinct's original safety also based on two front lines + 5th line (5th line in Ozone case does not work as safety but only supports the LE). I custom rigged the bar so that I have safety on one frontline. It actually works pretty similar as "true" 5th line safety on C-kites, the kite flips over to U position, a bit uneven U but still good enough to kill the power.

I usually self launch and self land, so I have learned to trust the release on one line better than "full depower"-type of safety, if something goes wrong. Problem with depower-type of safety is that if the kite craches down nose first directly in the center of the power zone, you can still get dragged in worst case scenario even after pulling the safety. Let's see how it works on Evo's case, but I would not be surprised if I still choose to modify the EVO bar to enable release on one frontline.
the Evo is designed to fully depower at the edge of the wind window once its safety is released.
And not on its back like e.g. the Bandit. The Evo can´t fly belly up accordingly. If you applied a one sided front line safety the Evo like any other kite would end up in an unstable position - at least in higher winds - as a "U" type of stiff fronttube grabbed asymmetrically over one tip always tends to flap open and close. It´s better than nothing but IMHO old fashioned and to be found in threads back in 2003 before 5E was invented. I dislike this type of final position as it´s connected to pull AND uncertain behaviour of the kite rather than being stable, controlled and ready for reliable relaunch.

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Re: North bar setup for Evo

Postby Toomas » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:47 am

I hear what you are saying, you are right. As far as being on the water, this is all true. My concern is crashing on land. If two front lines are under tension, there seem to be a risk to get dragged even if the backlines are released (if the kite is nose down, directly downwind). Perhaps I can just add an "o-shit" handle on one of the back lines, just in case. Maybe I am oldschool but I somehow feel better if I know that there is a possibility to flag out the kite on one line, if needed.


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