Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
Marc_87
Medium Poster
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:36 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Slufter and Mirns
Style: Freeride/freestyle/oldskool
Gear: Powered by Flysurfer
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Marc_87 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:21 am

paul m wrote:Will answer any questions i can.
Do you know when the kite be in Europe for sale,
and what are the prices from the kites compleet?

User avatar
Foxi
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Walchensee - the bavarian caribbean ;-)
Favorite Beaches: Navene & Campagnola / Lake Garda
Capetown
Paracuru / Brazil
Le Mourne / Mauritius
Gargano
Lake Reschen / Italy
Tarifa
Style: RED
Gear: Groove Skate
Moses Onda
Ozone Alpha V1
F-One Trax
North Mono & Neos
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Garmisch-Pa./Bavaria
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Foxi » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:31 pm

Hi Paul,

thanks for the clips - you may have noticed I did a similar whilest less perfect job for the Evo back in December.

I´d like to comment based on my experiences as a 4-line fan, comming from 5th line systems.

When you release the CB4, I assume that´s kind of perfect world it´s turning onto face to face.
A system, independently from brand, which flips on it´s back, MAY turn onto face to face, but usually there is a windrange, where a certain size will not automatically do so. Collecting the kite becomes much more complicated and the procedures usually runs over one steering line with little chance to bring in the bar propperly rolled up.
In rougher conditions, my experience with collecting the kite from face to face simply is, that it´s to a high degree dangerous. Chop or smaller waves makes the LE catch wind and the kite can launch like a rocket in a blink of an eye.

Don´t get me wrong, I don´t want to bash the IDS and my current personal decision is also towards a 4-line-based solution. BUT those 4 lines CURRENTLY can not FULLY replace a 5th line advantage in certain areas. And collecting the kite in a safety situation, especially in rougher conditions than shown in the clip, is one of those tricky areas.

Therefore any system, either the Bandit´s, the Evos or the Cab´s IDS is an approach but not the solutions in every respect. But of course a challenge for further R&D ! :thumb:

keep on posting clips, movies show more than 1000 words can !

aloha

Foxi

Experimental player
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:39 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Too young for dumbow
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Experimental player » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:48 pm

Can you show a video of relaunch from the self landed position?

5th line kites can do this extremely quick when its windy.

It will be interesting to see if it relaunches in deepwater or in waves if it accidently escapes to absolute depower.

Kosh
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:00 am
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Freeride
Gear: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS 9m2
Cabrinha Crossbow IDS 13m2
Cabrinha Imperial 2008 128 board
Brand Affiliation: Promotes Cabrinha for the national distributor.
Location: Norway/Europe
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Kosh » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:49 pm

Experimental player wrote:Can you show a video of relaunch from the self landed position?

5th line kites can do this extremely quick when its windy.

It will be interesting to see if it relaunches in deepwater or in waves if it accidently escapes to absolute depower.
Take a look at the "Release in Water and Re-launch" video. To be able to relaunch after engaging QR is the most important aspect lacking in the QR of current Cab models, releasing to one frontline causes a mess in the lines..

Experimental player
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:39 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Too young for dumbow
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Experimental player » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:09 pm

Bow kites dont relaunch from quick release? WTF!
Thats no advancement from a 2001 kite.

5th line kite have been relaunching from safety release for years.

Kosh
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 908
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:00 am
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Freeride
Gear: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS 9m2
Cabrinha Crossbow IDS 13m2
Cabrinha Imperial 2008 128 board
Brand Affiliation: Promotes Cabrinha for the national distributor.
Location: Norway/Europe
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Kosh » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:54 pm

Experimental player wrote:Bow kites dont relaunch from quick release? WTF!
Thats no advancement from a 2001 kite.

5th line kite have been relaunching from safety release for years.
:lol:

Image

User avatar
kitezilla
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1266
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:58 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby kitezilla » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:58 pm

Foxi,

Thanks for reminding us of your previous posts, concerning the Evo, and its new control system, which, to me appears, identical to the new Cabrinha IDS control system. I would guess that you have had more experience with this style control system than anyone except for Paul M and the designers employed by North and Cabrinha, so maybe you have an opinion on the following question:

“Is there any difference between the response of the Evo or the Cross-Bow, when the kite is thrown to its safety line (e.g. “Life-line”, “mini-fifth line” or what ever Cabrina calls their short 12 foot long line)?

For those interested in seeing the videos you refer to, I have listed them below:



This clip shows the Evo de-powering, falling from the sky, and quickly re-launching:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Gq5BRat0E

This clip shows the Evo de-powering, falling from the sky, and sitting at the edge of the window:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=QPe2gXynnVA

This clip shows the Evo, being thrown to it’s safety, and showing that the Evo responds in a similar manner, to that of the Cross-Bow with the IDS system, as shown in the video made by Paul M.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=yvT_KkIWib8


This clip shows the Evo being self-launched on the breach. I wonder if Cabrinha will recommend this method for their kites employing the IDS control system?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MtpVfMUpU6U



Here is another question for those in the know: “What should be the ‘generic’ name of this style of control system?…and further, “Who deserves the credit for inventing this style system?”

I would like to see credit given, where credit is due for this invention and, in general, for all such innovations in kite-boarding. Did North’s Ken Winner invent the system, or did someone before him create it?

User avatar
Foxi
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Walchensee - the bavarian caribbean ;-)
Favorite Beaches: Navene & Campagnola / Lake Garda
Capetown
Paracuru / Brazil
Le Mourne / Mauritius
Gargano
Lake Reschen / Italy
Tarifa
Style: RED
Gear: Groove Skate
Moses Onda
Ozone Alpha V1
F-One Trax
North Mono & Neos
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Garmisch-Pa./Bavaria
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Foxi » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:36 pm

the Evo´s current design doesn´t make it fully depower in its downwind position when released.
The pull ends after its walk to the wind window only. That´s how its designed and supposed to work.
I like it as I don´t find belly up stable other than totally flat water and steady medium winds. Others don´t and we have to see how Ralf Grösel, who is currently developing 09 Evos together with Jaime Herraiz, react on the market´s feedback.

What I can see from Pauls vids is that Cab goes the Bandit way of fully relasing the kite onto its back. With known issues to bend in the tips during a "regularly relaunch" from this position. We all know that far swept back fully inflated tips can hardly be pulled in. So of course the face to face position is a much loverlier way to relaunch the kite (unless the lines cross over - to be resolved by a bungee). But as mentioned in my previous post - big question remains how reliably (and stable) this procedure is repeatable.

Currently my conclusion is, that in spots, where a supersafe rescue procedure is mandatory for the individual rider, there is nothing superior to a 5th line grabbing the center of our LE and making barlines rolling up easily and without any danger.

If the downsides of a 5th line concept outweigh its safety aspects - like in my case in waves but also when failing in tricks :cool2: - then the individual rider can choose from current 4-line concepts like IDS, Evo or Bandit, always bearing in mind, that nothing comes for free ! :thumb:

User avatar
kitezilla
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1266
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:58 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby kitezilla » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:42 pm

I am just full of questions…at least this one is short:

I wonder how much difference there is in the use of the IDS, North EVO system or the Bandit system of de-powering and just doing this, as illustrated in the following video, with a normal Bow kite control system. I wonder if the new bridle patterns of these 3 kites, in reality, make that much difference to the action of the kite?

http://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=655514

User avatar
Galeltic
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1735
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:28 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: i m lost cause kiting adrenaline steal my soul with heart
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0

Re: Cabrinha Crossbow IDS

Postby Galeltic » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:03 pm

kitezilla wrote:I am just full of questions…at least this one is short:

I wonder how much difference there is in the use of the IDS, North EVO system or the Bandit system of de-powering and just doing this, as illustrated in the following video, with a normal Bow kite control system. I wonder if the new bridle patterns of these 3 kites, in reality, make that much difference to the action of the kite?

http://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=655514
<only sb3 is useful


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 27 guests

cron