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IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

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Wibbler
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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby Wibbler » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:07 am

KiteboardingTampaBay wrote:So, tell us about an organization that you could respect and support to create standards for our sport....
What would it be?
Something Not-for-Profit perhaps?

IKO cash in on land, sea and snow instructor training, insurance policies and selling kites (starkite brand)

They saw an opportunity, went for it and are now a pretty successful global franchise.
Nothing wrong with that in itself, someone had to do it....

But milking the cash-cows at both ends in the name of safety, very clever.

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby surfingwithkites » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:58 am

For one thing "standardizing" has its problems. It tends to stifle development and innovation. I imagine it would be a popular concept in the E.U. where everything is regulated. I'm sure the way things are going there will be "industry spokesmen" and "kiting lobbyists" pretty soon.

But if you really want a "big brother" organization it should be as impartial and independent of industry as possible and definitely not tied to any kite company or kite school. For example, do you really think the IKO would endorse a new safer style of kite if they weren't making it? It's obviously a huge conflict of interest to promote yourself as an impartial safety organization who "set the standards for the sport" and also have a kite company and give lessons. Clever marketing and I'm sure they are trying their best to wear both hats semi-fairly but threads like this will always pop up. I don't care one way or the other, there are no star kites here and there are no kite schools. It's just one more example of the kite industries growing pains.

I think forums serve as a sort of regulating agency in a way. Maybe the whole concept is out dated in the information/internet age? Sort of like the way the blogosphere has become the watchdog of the media and fact checks every story.

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby KiteboardingTampaBay » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:16 pm

I am an IKO Instructor and I think their training course is great, it would definitely teach everyone something- even the old school types. I am sure of that.
IKO and PASA have good training programs in my opinion, however most treat it like a joke.

A Sucessful organization would be created by kiters with no industry influence. These manufacturers should be footing the bill for regaining access, signage, etc. and supporting safe kiting habits.

What do you do about all the uncertified/unqualified instructors out there?
How about wannabee shops operating out of their cars?

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby afflatus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:27 pm

No biggie,

But you're equating certified with qualified.

and in so doing equating uncertified with unqualified.

that's a flawed premise.

you'd have to fix that, among other things.

My take is that you can see who has merit by what they teach.

Do they teach respect for the beach? or do they disrespect the beach by teaching on it?

Like that BO BO, certified is a non issue.

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby klimber » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:36 pm

this reminds me of a rock climbing gym in Minnesota that also built walls. They gave their construction methods a fancy name and then advertised as being the only climbing wall that is certified in that level of quality.

what a joke. (spandex wearing sport climbing weenies)

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby KiteboardingTampaBay » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:58 pm

To clarify:
I say certified beacuse I respect the efforts of those wishing to instruct taking the training courses offered by IKO and PASA. To become a legitimate instructor and obtain liability insurance its the way to go.

I say qualified because there are old school instructors with great lesson plans that are not "certified" by any organization, or they have not renewed their membership in said organizations. (Paul M, for example) Reel coould be another one if they taught the proper course material and could get their students to actually ride upwind.

In your opinion, what could verify a quality instructor?
(I think reviewing their lesson plan and training site, and checking out former students is a good start)
Should there be an entirely new procedure for "certifying" or training instructors?
Somehow you need to create respect for instructors and respect for the proper learning channels (ie: Taking Lessons)

BTW, Fo- BoBo doesn't support beach lessons either, other than trainer kites in a wide open area. Water lessons on the beach are dangerous and a risk to access. :thumb:

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby afflatus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:56 pm

Well,

he's another flawed concept you embrace.
....could be another one if they taught the proper course material and could get their students to actually ride upwind.
The only relationship involved in acquiring "a feel for edging the board against the pull of the kite" to go upwind

is having the student

spend time actually riding the board while flying the kite.

And you agree, a deep water program is essential if you'd like to focus on riding while flying

without the added hazard / worry / concern / liability / fear of fucking it up in the swim zone.

so unless you're saying no one as ever ridden upwind without the proper course material like wind theory or some such crap???

Wait, you're making any sense at all....

Sorry I just don't get it.

What are you asking me that I haven't already explained, or answered for you?


thanks
fo

We learn by doing, venue is the most essential part of the leaning curve..period !!!!

end of story, you cannot sell safety if you are not smart enough, or honest enough to provide it.

The beach is no place to be experimenting with any kind of theory.

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby Windrider » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:13 pm

I would agree that whether or not someone can ride upwind is not a good metric on whether or not they've had good instruction. The acid test for good instruction should be:
  • Kite Launch skills
    KIte Landing skills
    Kite handling skills
    Kite deep water relaunch skills
    Kite crash on beach relaunch skills
    Kite stalls handling skills
    Kite self-rescue skills
    Bar release skills (let go of the damn bar!)
    Kite quick-release skills (instinctive/reflex training)
    Beach awareness skills
    Reading the weather skills
    Kite release using hook-knife skills
    Body dragging skills (no board leashes allowed in training)
    Possibly teach lofting recovery (obviously in deep water with small, intentional loftings (jumps))
Please add to this list of what should be considered essential beginner training as taught in a class.

Beyond those essential safety and kite handling skills, additional training comes under "Improve your skills" category like learning defensive driving in a car, or drifting, etc.

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby KiteboardingTampaBay » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:18 pm

Not at all what I meant about riding upwind, its the least important thing in a lesson. Self rescue should come before they water start, yet some schools don't even teach it. Its all about riding the board and buying a shiny new kite to take home with you.
In a perfect world, newbies would not be buying kites until they prove they learned the basics.
Fo:
I was asking what do you consider a "credible"(certified), or "respectable"(qualified) instructor?
What would be the "standards" in your opinion for a system that would work?


Windrider- I agree with most of your post, except the relaunch on the beach thing.
I would add to your list:
Site selection
proper rigging
Attaching leash properly with QR on harness side of connection (QR leashes should be mandatory.)
hand signals
upwind board drag
beach etiquitte
right of way rules
self rescue- add offshore and raft method (3 total)
Train and test on all of it.
Wow :!: this may be a productive thread after all! (keep it flowin')

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Re: IKO "The worlds official authority on Kiteboarding" ?

Postby wakeboy » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:53 pm

no they have no jurisdiction in any place. In Italy, the government from 2009 will have an officially recognised kite system, anyone doing competitions / teaching or anything with out affiliation /documentation will be breaking the law and fined....

like france...

iko goodbye from italy.


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