C kite + SLE kite = Delta kite...???

[RDM]

North Evo 09
F-one Bandit Dos
RRD Passion..
Wainman Rabbit...

Do these kites hold good solid power in a turn C kite style, or do they do the classic go dead in the turns then pull hard across the window like most bridled SLE`s...

Any owners care to comment...???

[j1finnn1]

The passion is an easy rider, not really meant to go after the c kite market. It definitely does not generate power in the turns. I flew the bandit 1, and it's the same way. If anything, they're more pivotal in the turns.
I think this has to do with the fact that the front lines are further away from the wingtips than on a c- kite. This makes the trailing edge of the kite want to skid around the front lines in a turn, kind of like fish- tailing a bicycle.
For a beginner, (And the passion is geared toward the entry level market first) this is not a bad trait, as it's one less thing to worry about when doing transitions and the like. (Less yanking around). That said, we do have a lot of guys that are enjoying the 7 and 9 in the waves now for it's park & ride approach to wave riding along with incredible relaunchability.
I think the potential is really there for a killer high performance delta though. I was playing with the passion down in florida, and though I prefer a different style of turn, you can see its' inherent power, stability, upwind and relaunchability in a very compact platform. I can't wait to see what happens in the next couple of seasons with this concept. Maybe Outboard front line attachments would get that arcing turn, I think I would love that kite.
In the RRD lineup, the Obsession is the kite with the most c- kite like turning. Not a full delta, but it has some influence in the kinked leading edge. For a bridled kite, it's the most c-kite like performance i've tried yet, and I'm not saying that because I'm a rep.
Can't speak for the evo and wainman, I haven't flown them, but I can say that the Wainman Norcal crew are a nice bunch of guys. (for what that's worth)

[PAFF]

North Evo 09
F-one Bandit Dos
RRD Passion..
Wainman Rabbit...

Do these kites hold good solid power in a turn C kite style, or do they do the classic go dead in the turns then pull hard across the window like most bridled SLE`s...

Any owners care to comment...???

Not even close....

But all very fine allround kites.

[seano]

OOOOOooooooooooooohhhhhhh feel the pressure loading,,,,,,,,, loading,,,,,,,,, loading - I can see a KS post explodin into the ethernet any moment soon

Oclips Chemo, Feliks, yada yada yada

happy new year from GDC bro's.

Maybe they get that "delta" to stop pivoting one day - I used to love my stunt (delta - triangular kite) two-liner back in '77.

Forget the C - SLE - delta-elipsoid kite yada yada.

Go surfin more - No Strings Attached

[Freddy B]

I only really know Cs. I don't care for Bows (Best, and older ones at least). I'm ok with a hybrid (rebel). I really enjoy my new Rhino 08 delta shape. I'll ad more to this post regarding the turns tomorrow when I try to ride my C and my Delta.

[maddy]

C kite + SLE kite = DELTA kite = EVOLUTION

[Freddy B]

Been a while, but here goes with my follow up reply...

Been riding the Rhino 08 for a while now. Very nice kite, not a freestyle kite that the comp guys would like, but racers and oldschoolers will love it.

As for my take on the delta....

The design is nothing like a bow. The frontine bridals only move when you are sheeting in or out or using the depower sheet. That gives it a very direct feel similar to the rebel or hybrid kites. There is a difference in turning however between this shape and a C kite. I haven't narrowed it down quite yet, but here's the best explanation I can give....

A C kite (my 06 rhino) turns with a good bit of power in it, but somehow it is managable. Maybe it's just what we were used to, but you knew exactly where the kite is as you are turning it without even looking at it, even on a kite with lower bar pressure. This is one of the most comfortable things I miss from the old C kites. The uber direct feel. A lot of this was due to the narrow usable power range however and very minor depower in the bar stroke.

The (older) bow kites I've tried were so muddy that you had no idea what they were doing without looking at them. Don't care to try too many anymore, although the cabrinha looks very nice.

The (north) Delta is basically just like a Hybrid but with a dynamic way to extend the range of the kite amazingly. As I pointed out before, the bridal system doesn't appear to move at all unless you are sheeting in and out. this creates a very direct feel. I can set the power loop, or the bar adjustment and the kite feels similar to me to a C through the turns in that you know what the kite is doing without looking at it. However if you sheet it in or out while turning, you can make it feel as muddy, or powerless as a bow, or give it so much power you feel like you are powered up on a C kite and have to pay more attention to your boardwork. I've become very comfortable on the delta, and actually haven't taken as much time to rig my old C 12m that I loved so much, simply because I'm riding a 10m earlier and later, and it is more comfortable in the gusts/lulls wile also giving just as much rip off the water and tons more hangtime. I don't do the wakestyle tricks though, so I can't really coment on the progression of the kite towards that end.

As an all round kite, especially with racing, jumping and range being covered to such an outstanding extent, this to me is truly a large step in the progression of kite design. I beleive many companies will utilize this design in the future. And as I understand it, the super stable delta shape can be designed for those big wave riders out there looking for a kite to just park and hang in the air.

[Peter_Frank]

Just one note here:

Freddy B - the North Rebel IS a bow kite

I cant imagine having seen many kites as "bow" like as the rebel (=very flat, very pivotal in narrow turns, huge depower etc etc), both in looks and feel - and it is definitely not a hybrid kite in any ways.
Bridles or 5th line is only two different ways of doing it (and might give different feel and other ups and downs) - but having flown the Rebels (07 and 08 not the 09) I can say it is a typical bow kite with all its characteristics

And a really GOOD bow kite too, very powerful and good for waves also

I think we all know the history why many wont call their kite a bow kite, as a kite got to have "C like feel and bow like depower" and yada yada yada...

So call them whateever you like - but the Rebel truly has the characteristics of a very flat kite. End of story as I see it.

Seano got is somewhat right - as there is too much "name" bla bla bla yup


On the topic though - the few delta like kites I've tried, seems to have quite low power in the turns, where a typical SLE kite (like most are/were today) in fact have better and more smooth turning power, but still not comparable to a C.
But as said - when only a few to compare with, dont take my word for it - just some basic observations but not that many

What they DO seem to have though (on my first few encounters), is excellent stability (cant be beaten), easy handling/relaunch, good power/lift often, smooth power delivery across the window as mostly lower AR, and drifts good

It will be okay if I am wrong though...

Peter Frank

[Kosh]

Freddy B: True regarding the Cabs. But the 2009 model of the Crossbow is amazing. Really good feeling with what the kite is doing. Also, the turning is quite different, more pivotal as other mentions regarding the Deltakites. I think this is too because the front lines are further away from the steering lines (or closer to the center of the LE) than previous.

[ian c]

go dead in the turns then pull hard across the window

That is usually a feature of flatter kites in my experience - if you do a short low turn for a wake pop I think you get more pull loading back from a more c shaped kite