Kites sitting deep in the window versus more forward - why?

[Dr_Rosen]

Just trying to understand kite characteristics. One thing I don't really understand is that some kites are designed to sit deeper in the window than others and vice versa.

So my question is, when is what an advantage and why? e.g. for
- wave riding
- unhooked freestyle

I know that it is easier to go upwind with a kite positioned forward in the window.
I thought freestyle kites should sit deeper for better pop etc., but recently read some that said Ckites excelled for freestyle because they sit more forward in the window.

So can anyone elaborate on this topic. Details appreciated

[Erlend M B]

I know that it is easier to go upwind with a kite positioned forward in the window.
I thought freestyle kites should sit deeper for better pop etc., but recently read some that said Ckites excelled for freestyle because they sit more forward in the window.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet...

[FSUkiteboarding]

2:36

[JS]

This is a topic that's misunderstood by many.

More efficient kites, with higher lift/drag ratios, fly "farther forward in the window". From a performance perspective, there's no advantage to kites that have lower l/d ratios. Parachutes have really low l/d ratios, and would therefore fly "deep in the window". They're lousy for kiteboarding.

Some people mistake a kite responding to a change in apparent wind direction as a kite that's flying deeper in the window.

Cheers,
James

[Brent4336]

A kite that sits deeper in the window is more stable, the power is more consistent, and they are easier to load up for pop because you can edge em a little more before they turn gutless at the windows edge.

More efficient is not always better. There is a trade off to efficiency just as there is with any aspect of a kites characteristics.

Really efficient gear is the first to get going, but once there is a decent 15 knots of wind, it is often the least fun to ride. Same with boards.

[ktouhey]

I thought freestyle kites should sit deeper for better pop etc., but recently read some that said Ckites excelled for freestyle because they sit more forward in the window.

So can anyone elaborate on this topic. Details appreciated

nahh... it's not one or the other.
C kites are more inefficient = better for freestyle. So it's that they sit back while riding along getting speed, then when you stomp on your edge to load they shoot forward to rip you off the water... then when you're in the air their inefficiencies kick in a bit and it stalls = slack in the lines = nice.
That, plus they have the direct turning feel thing, so you can feel where your kite is.
I find most people don't know (or care really) why they like C kites. that's why I like them for UH freestyle though.

same sorta thing for waves... one is that they have 'direct' stearing feel, with good feedback. But also that they depower from edging & shooting forward in the window... not just by sheeting out. but then they'll drop back again so you can keep tension in the lines. If you're gonna ride waves unhooked, thats the way to go. If you're going to do it hooked in, then you're better off on an sle.

[Rorke]

The following is just my opinion. I like kites that sit deeper in the window, specifically for riding waves.

Great Lakes wave riding involves side-on to onshore winds. (In the right spot, we can get side shore winds with good waves for about an hour.)

The deeper a kite sits in the window, the easier it is to follow.

True, lower aspect kites don't get up wind as well, but they are more fun to ride downwind.

It is similar to mountain biking. The light, hard tail bikes may be easier to ride uphill, but the heavier, full suspension bikes are way better for the downhill. I'd rather lug up the weight to enjoy the downhill.

Right now I have Kima's and a Thruster.
The high-aspect Thruster is not sweet in the waves. It is too easy to accidentally ride underneath.
The Kima's are mid-aspect. I prefer to be nearly underpowered on them. This is because I can purposely backstall the kite to drift it way deep and surf at it (when the stars align). The Kima recovers from this move very well; probably because it has 3 struts, is light, and delta-ish.
Of course, if I am lit and using any depower, then the kite won't backstall..

My pal has Kima's and Nano's and after a season of riding, he likes the Nano for our wave conditions. Why? Because it sits deeper.

Also, for flat snow riding (lakes), the deeper the kite sits the better. You can get under a kite on fast snow in a flash.

[Don Lester]

A kite that stays back in the window wants to stay there, resulting in less input and attention from the rider....... A kite that can fly close to the edge of the window wants to do that, but also ends up back in the window at times as well so the result is more attention and input from the rider.........

[jwoodunlv]

I would say lower aspect kites are definitely better in waves since they "fly backwards" much better and you have less of a chance of riding under them and stalling the kite. As far as C vs LEI, who cares, try them both out and see what you like. I learned on C-kites but I ride SLE's now because I don't have the money to buy 5 kites to handle all conditions and like the ability to have 2 kites and handle most of what mother nature throws at us. I also like the self launch features that SLE kites offer. It's nice to be able to pull up, hook a kite up to my truck, launch without beating the crap out of my kite, and go. I'm not a pro so the advanced performance a C-kite might offer won't really make a difference to me.

[Brent4336]

My first kite was a North Buster. A low aspect C kite used mostly by schools and beginners. Steady as a rock and nice constant pull cause it sat so deep in the window. Only had about 30 percent depower, and no real lift, but that steady nature and the feedback from constant line tension made it a great first kite. Back then you got used to messin with stuff and the second winter I rode it with a homegrown version of the Naish double depower free bar concept they hyped for a season. Suited it really, cause that kite sat so deep in the window that even with no rear line tension, you had to really mess up to get it upwind of you. I rememeber sitting out some nasty winter squall bits with my ass firmly planted, snowboard dug in, rear lines bowed out slack and that kite toughing it out about a foot off the snow at the edge of the window. Wasn't really that much residual pull with totally slack rear lines and it was really steady never getting that close to the windows edge like the high aspect, tricky to fly sky rockets of the time (Rhinos, Amps, Airblasts). Delta kites sit nice and deep in the window (at least my first gen F-one Bandit did). Not that different a kite. We've just learned to make em depower and relaunch with a little bridling and some sweep to the LE and tips.