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Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

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kitezilla
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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby kitezilla » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:51 pm

I love this comment on the "Wired" blog thread:

“Well, it’s all well and good in practice, but it will never work in theory”

Ask the poster of this comment if you can use this for the title of your book. I can hear Steven Colbert now: "Nation, and especially, children and students, as you know I reject all forms of scientific advice, spewed out of so-called experts and professors. Truth comes from the heart and not the mind...and now here, the author of the motivational book "but it will never work in theory" is Rick Cavallaro...to tell me why students should pay no attention to the advice of their teachers.

Rick, tell us why are you are trying to undermine our society, by destroying the trust between teachers and students? We know in our hearts that what you just showed us on that film clip, can not happen, so, why don't we just run that clip backwards and admit that it never happened? I will be happy, our nation will be happy, and you will be happier not to be declared as a Witch...Jimmy, show us the clip of how they treated the Witches..."
Last edited by kitezilla on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby Laughingman » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:55 pm

Damn you could write for them!
kitezilla wrote:I love this comment on the "Wired" blog thread:

“Well, it’s all well and good in practice, but it will never work in theory”

Ask the poster of this comment if you can use this for the title of your book. I can hear Steven Colbert now: "Nation, and especially, children and students, as you know I reject all forms of scientific advice, spewed out of so-called experts and professors. Truth comes from the heart and not the mind...and now here, the author of the motivational book "but it will never work in theory" is Rick Caravallo...to tell me why students should pay no attention to the advice of their teachers.

Rick, tell us why are you are trying to undermine our society, by destroying the trust between teachers and students? We know in our hearts that what you just showed us on that film clip, can not happen, so, why don't we just run that clip backwards and admit that it never happened? I will be happy, our nation will be happy, and you will be happier not to be declared as a Witch...Jimmy, show us the clip of how they treated the Witches..."

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby kitezilla » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:18 pm

I am more interested in Rick's appearance on the Jerry Springer show and the reporting of the incident on CNN..."Chair fight between Nobel prize winner and up-start inventor" Sanjay Gupta quipps: "We think of our scientists as being stone-cold rational beings, but occasionally emotions get the best of them...back to you Josh..."

Sorry, I watch too much TV...but I'm just saying: Rick, you better start preparing.

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby jokerman » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm

hhiho spork :thumb:

could you explain shortly the physical principle this is based on ?

just the principle which invalidates the theory that "blah blah impossible faster" !
i think this can be done in some short sentences, but i have no idea how to
explain what you have proven. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby spork » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:07 pm

kitezilla wrote:I love this comment on the "Wired" blog thread:

“Well, it’s all well and good in practice, but it will never work in theory”
It's one of my favorite quotes. It originally came from a friend of ours that's peripherally involved in the project. He had to laugh because no one believed the theory when I first proposed it. They all said I'd have to build it to prove it. Once we built it, they called B.S. and explained to us why it can't work in theory. He was quick to boil that down to a great sound-bite.

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby spork » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:14 pm

jokerman wrote:could you explain shortly the physical principle this is based on ?:
There are a lot of ways to approach this - but let me start with this...

Ice boats (and even high performance sailboats) can reach a directly downwind mark much faster than the wind - by tacking. Let them race a balloon that's floating with the wind, and they'll take a longer path, but still beat the balloon to the mark directly downwind. You can easily imagine two such boats on side-by-side alternating tacks - connected by a telescoping pole. This would make one miserably unwieldy vehicle, but in theory would be a vehicle that goes directly downwind faster than the wind.

Instead of tacking our sails back and forth, we spin them around an axle (the prop-shaft) so they are on a continous spiralling downwind tack. Of course they're geared to the wheels to constrain them to that path just as the keel constrains the sail to it's downwind path. Simply enough - sort of.

If you want to know why an ice-boat can do that - that's another question. I can answer that with a simple vector analysis, or I can take another approach on the whole thing that might be more intuitive. But in the meantime - try this... put a yo-yo on the table with the string partially unwrapped and exiting below the axle. Pull the string steadily and horizontally. You'll find the yo-yo winds up the string and moves in the direction you're pulling - but faster than you're pulling.

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby The111 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:13 pm

spork wrote:I think you're going to love the bay area. Great weather and great wind. I hope you'll contact me when you're here. We'd be happy to show you our contraption (and go kiting) - maybe even convince you to go hang gliding and/or paragliding.
Yeh, I've wanted to live there for over a decade... it's finally going to happen.

I have a bunch of skydiving buddies out there that are into hang gliding and paragliding too. Definitely something on my list for the future, there's only time and money standing in the way (the same things that kept me from getting into kitesurf for so long). Actually... one of my friends out there just destroyed his wrist pretty bad (lots of metal now) in a hang glider crash. :o

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby chemosavi » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:16 pm

"what we call "dynamic wind energy harnessing"

So are "we" (can't I play too?) going to put one of these on some tracks out in the desert (connected to a generator of course, (how you get the power into the grid is going to be exciting, overhead lines?)).

IOW, show me the money.

Or, where's the beef?

I know you have something in mind. Don't be shy....

I ask in part because I design and build wind powered gadgets for a living. Envious of course.

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby spork » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:22 pm

The111 wrote: I have a bunch of skydiving buddies out there that are into hang gliding and paragliding too.
There can't be that many people in the bay area that are into hg, pg, and skydiving. I'm pretty sure I know all seven of them.

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Re: Downwind Faster Than The Wind - update

Postby spork » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:24 pm

chemosavi wrote:"what we call "dynamic wind energy harnessing"

So are "we" (can't I play too?) going to put one of these on some tracks out in the desert (connected to a generator of course, (how you get the power into the grid is going to be exciting, overhead lines?)).

IOW, show me the money.

Or, where's the beef?

I know you have something in mind. Don't be shy....

I ask in part because I design and build wind powered gadgets for a living. Envious of course.
You know me well enough to know that "shy" is not a possibility. We really only have a concept. Hardly even a concept - more of a principle. If someone tries to throw money at me I'm sure I can flesh it out enough to do some research. But I've actually got a pretty good day job.

I'd love to hear about your work.


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