New generation C-ish kites

[aeberl]

What about the "bridled C kites"
Mobile NHP
Ozone C4
RPM
etc.
Who else is making them? How do they compare to traditional C kites (Torch, Fuel, etc)? How do they compare between them?

[srq kiter]

Cabrinha - Nomad
North - Vegas
Best - Nemesis

Delta-C
Wainman - Rabbits
F.One - Bandit III


The bridled kites typically have more depower at the bar.. Most of these also have at least two bridle settings, one for a more traditional feel (faster turning and more depower) and second new school/freestyle set-up (more stable, slower turning).

Hope this helps!





http://www.watermankitesports.com

[aeberl]

Cabrinha - Nomad
North - Vegas
Best - Nemesis

Delta-C
Wainman - Rabbits
F.One - Bandit III


The bridled kites typically have more depower at the bar.. Most of these also have at least two bridle settings, one for a more traditional feel (faster turning and more depower) and second new school/freestyle set-up (more stable, slower turning).

Hope this helps!

I believe you have never flown a true C-kite:
Last C-kite Cabrinha has manufactured is the CO2.
Even though an exceptional kite, the Nomad is still far from being even C-ish.
Neither is the Nemesis nor any delta kite (Waimann or others).
The term Delta-C sonds somewhat like a Formula 1-Rally car ?!??!? Both are cars... but that's about it!
By C-ish I mean:
-Larger wingtip area
-Relatively straight LE, no swept back wing tips (Delta) nor concave trailing edge (bow).
-Direct connection, no pulleys






http://www.watermankitesports.com

[kitenaked]

Okay...

What about when the bridles are taken off the 5m Bunny, 7m Gypsy or 9m Smoke on the Wainman's and flown direct.......




http://www.kitenaked.com

[Kraimer]

What about the "bridled C kites"
Mobile NHP
Ozone C4
RPM
etc.
Who else is making them? How do they compare to traditional C kites (Torch, Fuel, etc)? How do they compare between them?

What type of ride are you looking for? That's more important then worrying about the generation or its class. And why are you looking at C shapes? My reason from switching back to Cs (after only owning 1 SLE) is that I hate bridal and wingtip wraps so the C removes those issues entirely. A supported C may not, keep that in mind if that is why you are shopping for a "Cish" kite.

I'd call the 09/10 Fuels a new generation c kite because they equal if not are better then bridal kites in prelaunch and upwind ability. They generate as much lift and (IMO FWIW) are safer and easier to use for a slightly more experienced rider.

RPM - Very fast board speed kite. Good boost. Good relaunch and sits very deep in the window. If you’re looking for a towing machine with some good lift this guy is your ride, hands down.

Fuel (09/10)- (I have every size. 5,7,9,11,13) - Much more boost oriented kite and really likes to be overpowered to get raw energy out of it. When I ride my fuels I downsize two board sizes to really get into the sweet power zone. Until they are slightly overpowered I find that the RPM sits better in the window but once the wind turns on the Fuel is really an amazing ride. The 4 Line Fuel (in all sizes, 13 included) is by far the best relaunching kite I have ridden to date. Also with the Fuel, you better know how to edge the kite to the edge of the window when you are overpowered.

I have never ridden Tourch extensively nor North C kites. But my C quiver includes: '98 '99?? Wipika Free Air Classic 8.5 (Best relaunching kite ever, until the 09/10 Fuel), Wipika Free Air 8.9 ('02 version.), 16.8 Airblast, 04' 15M Fuel, '05 9M Diesel (nice free riding kite without the active bridal system), '05 13M Diesel, '07 11M Fuel.

In comparison: I'll remove the FreeAirs, Airblast and 04 Fuels.

The Diesels are a phenomenal C kite that is relaunchable without swimming (with some time though) but are very free ride friendly. Great depower with bar throw - the kite just dumps air. However, it sucks at jumping. RPM / Fuel win in relaunch and jumping. Hands down. Makes sense, right? 05 versus 09/10 technology. Diesel wins with depower (long bar throw). 07' Fuel is a good freeride kite, O.K. jumping kite. below avg depower.

Upwind: 09/10Fuel, 05 Diesel, 07 Fuel, 09/10 RPM (this is actually a good thing for the RPM. Less upwind means more board speed. more board speed = more power for pop. I really like how deep the RPM sits in the window.)

Relaunch: 09/10 Fuel, 09/10RPM, 05 Diesel, 07 Fuel (my 07 Fuel would always invert when I crashed it. Bastard kite. LOL )

Jumping: 09/10 Fuel (when powered otherwise RPM), '07 Fuel (needs to be super powered for lift), Diesels suck at jumping unless incredibly powered.

Shape / Size: Newer SS Cish kites have more fabric for the noted size then older SS c kites. 9M Diesel looks like a 7M 09/10 Fuel and like an 8M 09/10 RPM. New Cs are much deeper in profile while older Cs were chasing higher aspect ratios (a failed philosophy I believe)

First and foremost: I got nothing to do with SS in anyway. Over the years I have had easy access to their gear through local stores and used kite transactions. I've trusted the product and taken genuine interest in their kites. SS has clearly made bust kites as well, so, you have to know what your looking for to make sure your purchase does not fall in that category.

I really really want to try the Ozone C4. It would be sweet to see Lenten take on out (if he could) because for me that would be truest apples to apples. I’d like to the the Hadlow Pro as well. That something to consider.

Personally, Delta C’s are not C’s because of extensive bridals; that’s just a personal opinion though. Nothing more than that. Original bandits jump phenomenal, while the newer bandits (Dos) seem to be a bit more about board speed. I would say that the new bandit jumps higher then all Cs (new included) but suffers in other categories. Relaunch and wake. I would own a Bandit or two for pure jumping.

I hope this answered some of your questions? I know this is very SS slanted but that’s what I’ve owned so I can’t really comment fairly beyond what I’ve put enough time on the water with.



In addition I also rode a '08 14M Thruster. Great kite but lift was hit or miss and I really hate bridals when things

[adamrod]

nah, the wainman is a delta kite. not a C. wingtips are too swept back to call it a C even without bridles.

these days, "c like" or "c feeling" or "c shape" is mostly just marketing bs. they use it to say their kite is made for freestyle. there are so many kites with varying levels of C that it's getting a bit ridiculous.

generally, these "c-ish" kites generate more power in the turns and have less depower/range than flatter kites. they also tend to not relaunch as well, but perform better unhooked and in freestyle.

how do they compare to traditional C kites? well, compared to my Naish X3, they are an awful lot better! I really wouldn't consider any kite out there a traditional C kite anymore. they all have heaps more depower than they used to, and ride quite a bit differently.

a 2010 Torch is much closer to say an ozone c4 than my old Naish AeroII or X3.

most of the C kite crowd just doesn't like the feel of a kite with bridles, myself included. I like the feel of tugging on a wingtip when I turn.

[SimonP]

Kraimer's comments gelled with my experiences. The C versus bow versus delta arguments is a bit of a misnomer, it is more about high versus low aspect. Kite design made the same mistakes as windsurf sails a decade earlier and went high performance at the cost of usability (e.g. in aspect and struts) and then had to come back again.

Those early low aspect C kites weren't bad, although my Wipika FreeAir did Hindenburg all of the time. I really must get my 7m Diesel out for a wave kite one day as an experiment but it needs a lot of wind.

There are differences in kite design for pivotal turning and how much slack you generate from pop but that is rider's preference and what kind of riding you like to do.

I was feeling a bit bored last night so I hauled upwind on my RPM a few times (they do go upwind OK even though they sit deep in the window) and then unhooked and carved downwind as if I was being towed by a boat. You could never do that on a high aspect C kite circa 2003.

Simon

[philmb]

Hm, ineresting stuff!! Gotta say i love my 'rpm' but then, its my first kite. =/

Just got a couple questions (first season kiting):

What is "Hindenburg"? Keep seeing the term, curious as to what it is..

What do you guys mean exactly by "aspect ratio"?

Thanks guys..

[Starsky]

Hindenburg: when the kite gets a little too far upwind, usually directly overhead and it stops pulling, the lines go slack, leading edge tips forward and the kite just falls from the sky. Used to happen a lot with kites that were really high aspect ration. Now it usually only happens when you stack a jump and swing way downwind of the kite.

Aspect ratio is the ratio of length (tip to tip) to chord (leading edge to trailing edge). High aspect kites are like a long thin ribbon in the air and have killer lift, but less stability. Low aspect kites are squat and fat and are generally really stable, but dont produce much lift. High aspect kites fly closer to the edge of the wind window and hence used to hindenburg more than the lower aspect kites that sit deeper in the window.

There is a full spectrum of kite out there now and really it just takes figuring out what you want from a kite and buying accordingly. It takes a little time to really figure out what kind of kite is best going to suit you, and I think that really only comes with experience. Like most, I used to love boosting and loved kites with good float, now I'm more into riding than gliding and want kites that fly nicely unhooked. Generally quite different kites. I think there are a few kites out there that come close to doing it all pretty well.

[Geronimo79]

Eclipse has the Surge. It seems to be a real nextgen C kite. Atleas thats what they say