schools and helmets...

[kitester]

I was working with a student the other day who told me he had taken lessons from another trainer a few weeks before. As always there were several things that the other trainer taught differently which is to be expected. But one thing that surprised me was that he teaches students that helmets are unnecessary. The student was ready to buy a helmet from the guy too. He told the student that "no one uses helmets anyway so don't buy one." Apparently this guy owns a shop and sells gear. I think it would make good sense both from a safety stand point to supply helmets for the lesson and from a business aspect to encourage students to buy helmets after the lesson when they are buying gear. I bet almost every other school/trainer out there requires students to wear helmets during the lesson. I dont sell gear but, I always tell new students to buy a new helmet and harness even if they are looking for used kites or boards. Do you make your students wear helmets?

[Peter_Frank]

I was working with a student the other day who told me he had taken lessons from another trainer a few weeks before. As always there were several things that the other trainer taught differently which is to be expected. But one thing that surprised me was that he teaches students that helmets are unnecessary. The student was ready to buy a helmet from the guy too. He told the student that "no one uses helmets anyway so don't buy one." Apparently this guy owns a shop and sells gear. I think it would make good sense both from a safety stand point to supply helmets for the lesson and from a business aspect to encourage students to buy helmets after the lesson when they are buying gear. I bet almost every other school/trainer out there requires students to wear helmets during the lesson. I dont sell gear but, I always tell new students to buy a new helmet and harness even if they are looking for used kites or boards. Do you make your students wear helmets?

Our local kite school here actually supply students with helmets during the sessions, so yes

To some point one can understand above teacher just a tad (wrong I, know, but still), in the way, that noone really uses helmets (only a small fraction) - and especially the really good kitesurfers dont

So maybe he is just honest somehow (although a teacher should always teach that helmets is recommended - and especially if the students asks for one)

It IS a problem in my eyes, that if you look at it from "outside" - it will look like only geeks and beginners are using helmets

This is of course not fully true, no - but to some extent, looking at the population, it definitely is

And as long as this is how it works, it will be way more difficult to get more to use helmets

Not good, no, but reality right now I think....

So, if the teacher has used other words and explained what happens out there and that the student will see many without helmets, but still recommended a helmet - it could have been the right way maybe - but I dont know the actual case

Peter

[RickI]

There's a training accident, perhaps a lawsuit follows in the USA anyway. One of the questions asked, did the instructor/school adhere to a reasonable standard of care? If no helmets or impact vests were used, the answer may well be no.

The helmets have to be appropriate for kiting, fit and be secured well so as not to create an injury risk on their own. Also, the student shouldn't have significant neck weaknesses or injury that might preclude kiting in general. Use of proper helmets and impact vests in training seems to be a logical step. Not everyone is logical or bothers to adhere to a reasonable standard of care. Just because you don't think of something or take it seriously in business doesn't mean it won't cost you and perhaps a student dearly.

What prompted lots of skiers and snowboarders to start using helmets? In large measure at that time, the deaths of Kennedy and Bono. Pain probably factored in as well but people can be thick about such things. Looking at kiters out of instruction, lots of kiters have been killed, still many more seriously injured by head impacts. Guess we haven't had any of the stature and media appeal of Kennedy and Bono lost yet. It is sad that people will insist upon such negative, tragic examples to compel them to do reasonable things.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

[kiteingcolin1]

always take a helmet, consider the risk when you get there, mega windy , rocks, evil skys, shore break,lots of others out, dodgy launch area,I wear a helmet,

on the other hand if the day is one of medium winds, soft sandy beach, wide open area, few kiters out,
helper on hand to launch, good forcast, then no, I will leave the helmet off, my choice.

its worked well up to now, in 10 years of careful consideration, I have had one very nasty interface with a sea wall at high speed and around 4 nasty beach impacts hitting down hard backwards, all these times I have worn my helmet, to be 100% safe I should wear it every time, but in truth I wear it less than 50% of my time out, less in summer and more in winter, but sometimes wear it just to stay warm in winter.

[K-School SafetyFirst]

to be 100% safe I should wear it every time,

What makes you think that?

And Rick, do ou imply that the deaths and injuries would have been less by using a helmet?
I'm not so sure.
I agree with Colin that the spot and wind direction should lead to the decision. Helmets are for hard obstacles, not for water. I fear they are a danger to the neck. Which is more fragile then the skull in water.

I used to teach with helmets because it was IKO(my then 'insurance') required.
Now I let the students choose. In advance I refer to my webpage describing the dilemma. And at the start of the lesson I offer them the choice.
Most choose to leave the helmet ashore.

[JGTR]

Thing is he is right, no one wears a helmet really. Hardly ever see people wearing helmets at my beach and it's one of the most popular in the UK.

Even the BKSA safety leaflets show mutiple pictures of people kiting without helmets

But as an instructor I do think you should supply a helmet to a student while the are in your care, if only for your insurance.

But if you are doing private one to one lessons for semi competent students then maybe it should be upto the the student, but one should surely always be available and on offer????

Jay

[RickI]

I don't believe in total safety in anything, by definition it doesn't exist in human activity. There are degrees however and your odds of avoiding misadventure and injury will improve with the proper choices you make.

Helmets aren't magic, there are impacts in which they will do little good in preventing injury or death. Then again, there are lots of impacts in which they can help a great deal in reducing brain trauma, piercing and abrasion to your head, even keeping you conscious in some cases to be able to take action to save yourself. Everyone knows of course, WHAT type of accident they are going to have in advance, what type of impact, glancing, frontal impact, nature of traumatic brain injury and to what degree a helmet will or will not protect them right?

No, that is utter b.s.. Helmets are a safety aid, you get a good one, put it on whenever you ride and forget about it against the time you might need it.

Yes, I personally am sure appropriate helmets for kiting are worthwhile and their regular use would improve the accident experience. You can look at statistics from other activities with more available data like bicycling** or simply review information for our own sport. I was convinced ten years ago in the best, worst way possible. When your neurologist tells you would likely be dead after a kiting accident and your still pretty messed up, but for a helmet, you take it to heart. There have been many accidents in the following ten years, some survived, some not and some with varying disability. Lots are in the archives of this site and viewforum.php?f=131

Riders choice, choose well, a percentage of us get hurt every year, at times independent of skill and experience. For some of those a good helmet will make a difference but only if it is worn.

** "The most serious injuries among a majority of those killed are to the head, highlighting the importance of wearing a bicycle helmet. Helmet use has been estimated to reduce head injury risk by 85 percent."
http://www.bhsi.org/

[K-School SafetyFirst]

Hi Rick, glad you survived!
And I think it's great that there's a proponent for helmets here, portrayed with a helmet.
Was that accident on the water?
Or the typical helmet niche: gusty onshore wind on a narrow rocky beach?

You come up with bicycling, good example. Holland must be one of the top bicycling countries. At every railway stations there's 100s to several 1000s of bicyles. We have separate bicycle roads everywhere. Kids start at 5 and elders continue into their 90s, daily use.
No Dutchman wears a helmet. If we see bicycle+helmet, we know there's a German or US-er. Flat country. No head injuries. Getting caught in the dead angle of a truck is a known death cause, I've heard of 5 in the last 30 years.
For motorcycles and scooters, helmets are compulsory. Lots of brain damage still.

[RickI]

Me too, flew about 165 ft. horizontally from the waters edge, including cutting a 60 ft. tunnel through sea grape trees and slammed into a house. Brain hemorrhage, amnesia, voice change, loss of short term memory, was pretty nasty. Had a full, unexpected, recovery over several months. Was very lucky, decided to try to be smarter in the future.

More:
HERE

The bicycle/fatality rate in the USA seems somewhat grimmer than in the Netherlands. I understand due to your designated bike lanes, longer term large percentage of the population using bikes, there are fewer accidents in Holland. Also, lots of these USA kiters that wouldn't be seen in a helmet, think nothing about wearing them on a bike, hence my bringing up the comparison.

[RichardM]

If you don't like long posts, don't read this one.

Although at Malibu Kitesurfing we go into great detail with students as to why they should ALWAYS wear a helmet when kiting, for LESSONS we generally do NOT require students to wear a helmet UNLESS dealing with a board - then a helmet is ALWAYS required.

However, we generally will offer students the option of using a helmet for other types of lessons and explain that the only real benefit to be gained is to get used to wearing one. We've found that students do better with the least distractions and since they are PAYING, in usual conditions, we generally leave it their judgment as to whether or not to wear a helmet.

In situations where conditions are gnarly enough that we feel there is a remote possibility that a head injury could develop, we will either not give the lesson or we'll require a helmet.

The fact of the matter is that in lessons, the face is much more likely to be injured than the head and most helmets don't protect the face.

We also will generally offer an impact vest to women for any lesson (even though it frequently ruins the view).

Frankly, we believe that instruction manuals, articles, teaching DVDs etc. which indicate that helmets should be worn when LEARNING but NOT NECESSARILY once a kiter has "experience" specifically PROMOTE NOT USING HELMETS.

This is because the impression which is conveyed is that ONLY unskilled people wear helmets and in fact not wearing a helmet will indicate to others that you are actually an "experienced" kiter.

Evidently, a large element for many people wanting to kitesurf is because they think that being an experienced kiter will make them "cool". And since everyone knows that if you're uncool, you'll never get laid, then wearing a helmet = inexperienced = uncool = unlaid.

Of course, the magazines, videos, promotional materials etc. all constantly reinforce the foregoing moronic attitude by virtually never showing "cool" kiters doing "cool" stuff while wearing a helmet.

The below is a copy of a post from the thread "Helmets - there should be a Law !!" at
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2354094

My main point is that helmets can PREVENT accidents and that this feature is not only very beneficial for kiters but additionally means that a helmet can ALSO PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE.

COPY:
Actually, I don't really want a law. The title was just to get attention.

However, the only reason I don't like the idea of a law is that it would necessitate authorities involvement in kitesurfing and their involvement for sure wouldn't stop with helmets.

The fact is that you can make a better case for kitesurfers being required to wear a helmet than any other sport for the following reasons:

In ALL OTHER sports (motorcycle riding included):

1. The MAIN purpose of a helmet is to protect the participant by keeping his/her brains in their head as well as preventing or at least minimizing a participant's less severe head injury DURING an accident. And in water sports, also to prevent drowning by becoming unconscious or severely stunned when hit hard.

It never PREVENTS an accident from occurring.

2. Virtually the ENTIRE benefit of the helmet accrues ONLY to the wearer.
(Whatever societal benefits there are in the respect that society has to spend less resources dealing with head injured people are comparatively minor.)

The DIFFERENCE is that in kiteboarding, BESIDES having the same purpose as #1 above:

3. Wearing a helmet CAN PREVENT a serious accident. Helmets can do this because a relatively minor head bonk without a helmet could stun someone enough so that they lose control of their kite and end up in the deep doo doo. You could get tapped by your board or dragged into a trash can etc. A helmet could be the difference between losing control of your kite or not.

And/or could be the difference between being able to activate your quick releases or not.

4. Because of the foregoing, a helmet can ALSO PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE since it is obvious that out of control kites are potentially dangerous to others as well as the unlucky kiter.

I have NEVER heard a GOOD reason why kiteboarders shouldn't wear a helmet.
If anyone believes that THEY KNOW A GOOD REASON, PLEASE POST IT on this thread !!

Reasons I consider NOT GOOD include:

1. They aren't comfortable enough.
It's true that at first they are noticeably less comfortable than NO helmet (unless its cold). However, there are many different brands, sizes etc. and anyone that can get used to wearing a harness, can easily get used to wearing a helmet.

2. They don't look cool.
What can I say. What's going to happen if some less-than rocket-scientist thinks you look less cool? If you're this insecure about your image, maybe you should spend some of your kiting time with self-help books.

3. I've never needed one.
Don't laugh. I've heard this more than once. How someone can conclude that never having BEEN bonked means they'll never BE bonked, always boggles my mind.

4. I can't afford one.
Get a used one. Obviously, virtually anyone that can afford to kitesurf can afford another $20 - 100.

SOME MISCELLANEOUS CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING HELMETS:

1. I understand that the VAST majority of kiteboarding FATALITIES are due to head injuries.

2. Helmets with ear protection are probably better because your board is NOT your friend and it might hit you there. Also, ear protection will eliminate the possibility of blowing out your eardrum in the event you hit the water hard on your ear (blown eardrums are EXTREMELY painful and distracting).

3. Bright colors like yellow may be advantageous in case you're ever hoping that the Coast Guard is going to find you. But if you'd like to be color coordinated to your equipment, that's OK.

4. Although visors may minimize problems caused by the sun, during a hard fall and/or going through a wave face, they may catch water and yank your head back.

Besides commenting on the foregoing, if anyone has a helmet which they especially like, it would be nice if they could post their reasons on this thread.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET