Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .

[Billy B.]

Had a fun day throwing lots of loops on a rebel 10m yesterday, At one point I threw 11 loops in the air all while switching direction every 2 loops then 3 in the same direction while landing.

I climbed the hill we were gliding off of all while gaining alltitude and having to sheet out between loops and throw them out at the edge of the window to lose lift and to keep from getting blow over the top I was 70 plus feet high during the climb.

Lots off riders saw this happen, I wish some one had shot some video of it. I threw the first loop while a hundred plus feet of the deck and keept climbing up using loops. If there was video of this it could have proven to every one the power of the loop and how you can not use it to "bail out in air loft" I will for sure get some vid of this at some point since I have been through 6 to 7 loops on avarage while climbing the hill any time it is 12m kite or better. We have had crappy snow so gliding is the one fun thing to do right now,,,,,

BB

Again Airchatcher...... I am the guy in the video (Billy B.......ordy) I know what using loops in a updraft will do.


You will go higher I have done this. On purpose Here is a post from dec when i did 11 loops in a row in the air and climbed higher. Have you done 11 loops in a row????????

It\ is very funny you are using a video with me in it to prove me on a forum wroung..... Nice try....

Pleae listen to thoose of us with real experance, you should not use kiteloops in a updraft to come down or "bail out" it will only create more lift and you will go higher I have done this I am speaking from experence ....Please trust me so some one does not get hurt taking you poor advice....

[Billy B.]

I know what he is saying. After you take off there are two ways you can move the kite. One stroke in the case of the skyline hill and the wind direction in that vid is from the zenith to 11 in the case of the the hill at skyline that stroke brings the kiter down the hill and speeds them up. this is the acceleration stroke and it allows the kiter to build speed and move down the hill..

The stroke from 11 to 1 is then the braking stroke and allows the kiter to slow their speed while gaining lift and staying airborn this is the braking stroke.. the combo of the two are what allows the kiter to pick their speed, how high they are and where they land by controling their flight direction by how much they make one or the other stroke...

If you just pump the kite from side to side, you will have no control and may stall and fall.

Start little fly low then than to go higher...

He was also saying that kitelooping is an advanced technique to come down (@ 1:45 in the video), which you and your friend Wayne was strongly protesting in "advanced technique to bail out in air loft" thread,maybe you guys can learn "somethin" from this BB glide master since your profile said that ur "always open" for learnin.
Don't want to make it noisy,but this is a strong confirmation from a snow kite glide master that proper likelooping is an advanced technique to bail out/come down in air loft.Unless you guys stubbornly refuse to know this fact or probably already did that but pretend to misguide the world for whatever agenda you have behind since Wayne said that he used death spiral technique to come down also. (spiral down is actually a series kiteloops or equivalent to kiteloops in more extreme way because of the G you generated or endured ,FYI )
Shall we conclude this argument?

See above post bro........

[kite4surf]

Dear BillyB,

I understand your enthusiasm after a perfect snowkite day, and that's why I have not intervened for the moment.

Please re-read all the posts and watch the movies I posted, which stand as a proof for something completely different than what you have stated.

Personally I believe you should apologise to Aircatcher.

Congradulations for your 11 ascendent kiteloops, it should have been a perfect feeling.

Vlad Postelnicu

[POACHER]

Kiteloop when lofted......

Son I'll be prayin' to God, Allah, 6.5 lbs. baby Jesus, and Admiral Ackbar if I got lofted.

[kite4surf]

Kiteloop when lofted......

Yes !,
please see this :



read carefully what I posted here and try to understand my messages !

Vlad Postelnicu

[waynepjh]

The guy on the beach was not lofted he sent his kite like he was jumping, then did an accidental loop. If you are flying away from a hill in light to moderate winds a kiteloop is a good way to get back to the hill. When I mentioned a spiral I was talking about descending while paragliding. Just curious how many positive comments have you got on this topic. You talk about gg like he is your best friend. I kite with the guy that taught him how to kite and fly. Anybody can glide its not hard at all. I have been a paraglider pilot since about 1995 and kiting over 200 days a year since 1998. I think I know what i'm talking about. but still its JMO right?

question vlad! Billy kitelooped up the hill while flying and you still want to tell people that when you get lofted you should loop? just curious!

[Billy B.]

Dear BillyB,


Personally I believe you should apologise to Aircatcher.

Congradulations for your 11 ascendent kiteloops, it should have been a perfect feeling.

Vlad Postelnicu
]

You guys keep guessing,

I can use kiteloops to climb with in up drafts can you?????

How many loops in a row have you thrown? How many in a row in a updraft?

I know what happens from personal EXPEREANCE... Not theroy......and others videos while side hilling?

Arn't you guys the same person anyway???


Here is a flight with some loops out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVaT1te6 ... r_embedded


Here is a guy throwing three loops in a row starting at 1:09 he comes down becuase he is using loops while not in a updraft to control his rate of fall
.
I have no problem using this technique when the air is not rising, which is what will cause a lofting which is the title of this thread and what we are discussing. Using loops in this manner will bring the rider down, this is what you would want to do after you move out of the rising air causeing you to get lofted. Any move ment to catch air ind make lift will be better then just falling.

But if you are in rising air or a updraft throwing a loop or loops up high in the window will cause you to rise with the air and climb, this is what happens to me when I throw loops in rising air on purpose. This is my experance and a trick I like to throw, when the conditions are right!

[kite4surf]

Dear Billy B, Billythesnowkiter ,BB , Billy Bordy ,

This thread has a clear conclusion, which you and Wayne try to make confusing and hard to understand.

It is unfair towards the other participants to:
1) make FALSE statements
2) not respond to questions because you don't like the answer
3) to ignore the arguments of others or to post without paying attention
4) to intimidate the participants to the discussion ( who can make relevant observations )

Regarding Aircatcher, you use his words ( advanced technique ... ) and other information consisted in his thread…..in your movies and instead of beeing thankfull to him…. you pretend he may not contradict you, because you have more experience ....( at which we have obviously contributed too, with our movies and posts, as for example: explaination in correlation with the image, you now reconsider the importance of the kiteloop – but yet insufficient , etc.. )

And yes, in this way you are right.. Me and Aircatcher are the “same person”..... to inspire you...

Billy B. , it's a great difference between what you accomplish, and what you explain in the movies and in this thread.

I will analize your statements and the movies you posted, which show that my messages are.... correct. ( if you re-read the posts and watch again carefully the most important seconds of the movies, you will realize it yourself )

I mention, that in a few scenes in my movies, when I do not appear, I wrote who the kiter is.

Until then,

I repeat my messages from my movie that is in the beginning of the thread

" Reconsider the kiteloop as a safety problem" and "Control your flight with kiteloop "


and

it is iresponsable to promote the gliding if you do not mention that you have to master the technique of kiteloop at first.

I hope you are playing fair enough, in order to link this thread to your movies, like i did.

Vlad Postelnicu

[Billy B.]

Vlad,

It is obvious to me you just don't understand....Nor would you consider some one who does understands personal experance of this topic.

I hope you enjoy your kiting.

I hope you understand that the movie of yourself doing kiteloops on water really has very little to do with using kiteloops while caught in updrafts...Since you are not caught in a updraft or air loft..

Wayne and I have lots of flying experance and I have accomplished what we are disscussing. Our points come from such a background.

I think you and aircatcher are indead the same person who just doesn't understand what they are saying. But are injoying a internet argueement.

I have answered questions in this thread, I have not made any False statements, all statements are based off my personal experance.

All the video that I have posted are of me using said skills. Funny that most folks here in the U.S. feel I am a skilled glider, and "big air style" kiter and seek me out for my experences for advise and videos etc.. but I have to arguee on line with some one who I have never met and is posting under two different names in the same thread, I even have to discuss videos I am in or speaking in. That are being used to "prove" this insane idea of using kiteloops to bail out of a air lofting????????

SO in some of this thread... Video of me with me talking in is being used as proof that You and aircatcher are correct that loops should be used to bail out of a air lofting. I say nothing of the sort in the videos only that in none rising air you can use kitloops to control your rate of fall.

This is the same info Wanyne and I have been stating for the past year.....along with do not use kiteloops while caught in rising air. Plan and simple and also very true and tested........

Does this make sence to you? Kite loops in updrafts and rising air make you climb with the rising air, proven fact.....kite loops in calm air allows the rider to control their rate of fall proven fact.

These facts should have ended this conversation and kept kiters safe by giving them the knowledge that moving out of rising air is how to bail from a air loft, Not the statments made by you earlier saying kiteloops will cause the kiter to lose height and save them from a airlofting which is wroung and may get some one hurt....

Again real life experence being shared by Wayne and I about rising air and lofting and staying safe.
VS
You and airchatcher quessing based on being able to throw kiteloops on water, and while sidehilling on a c-kite that loops fast? REALLY ????




You are welcome to go on thinking that one should use kite lops to bail out in a air loft. Please go ahead and try to do this to bail out and see what happens.

Did you answer my questions?

How many loops have you thrown in a row?

Have you used several loops to climb with while in the air?

Have you ever been in a updraft and used loops to escape?

and now since you tell me it is Iresposable to promote gliding with out saying one must master the kiteloop first, which is so untrue becuase you do not need to ever use a kiteloop while gliding....Have you ever used a kite to glide down a hill?

I am done with this argueement with you, and aircatcher ( I think you are the same person).

I truley hope no one ever trys to use kite loops while in rising air to try and bail out becuase of this thread. Allways move out of the rising air and use what ever skills you have to land saftley to the ground. Looping the kite while in the rising air will cause you to move up with that rising air and gain more height.

Good kiting to all.

BB

[kite4surf]

This is the movie, of which we are talking about in this thread ( I perform the kiteloops ) .

My message was to "Reconsider the kiteloop as a safety problem" , "Control your flight with kiteloop" , "Avoid to be lifted" etc..



I have never said in my movie you should do a kiteloop in uplift ( eventhough I have prooved that it is possible in certain conditions )


On the 27 of March, 2011 I asked the following question:

Too many words, let's be constructive:

Please answer the following question: (regarding the minute 1.02 of my movie) :

Do you consider that kiteloops (if he mastered them) could have

helped Malik to control his landing, and to make it smoother? could he have

had picked his landing area, and have helped not to fall with his head

dangerously close to the rocks?

Vlad

You have answered my question 11 months later.

I have no problem using this technique when the air is not rising, which is what will cause a lofting which is the title of this thread and what we are discussing. Using loops in this manner will bring the rider down, this is what you would want to do after you move out of the rising air causeing you to get lofted. Any move ment to catch air ind make lift will be better then just falling.

This proves that you finally came to our conclusion, that the kiteloop can be an " Advanced technique to bail out in air loft ", when you are descending, and it is worth to master it.


Further on is the movie which proves that it is possible to bail out with kiteloop in an updraft:





Between 0:47 and 0:51 seconds, the kite is at zenith and there is unsignificant movement of it. Therefore, there is no movement to generate the jump. At the second 0:51 the uplift starts. "He didn't hesitate doing the kiteloop, with his right hand, at second 0:52 , and he did also look at his kite as he reacted.".

This I have said before, and I have said in this thread other things that are worth to be read again. Before posting something else, please read again carefully what I have stated in this thread ( I repeat myself ) ....

Each time you will derive from the subject of this thread, I will re-post this message. I am waiting for information ( movies or comments ) that will bring new experience / things, on this subject.

Vlad Postelnicu