Stupid behavior costs us, again.

[Ni]

The biggest problem with this kind of incident is that we as kiters all inherently understand the dangers of kitesurfing and of being anywhere near a kite, especially an out of control one. Members of the general public are generally not aware of this and will happily stand around gasping at all the kites, blissfully unaware of the fact they are about to be neatly decapitated by one of them.

It is not the general public's job to educate themselves to the dangers of being on a kite beach, it is our responsibility to never endanger another beach user. That way we keep our beaches a safe place for all and the councils wont have to close our favorite kite spots down.

They don't need to be educated. All it takes is to realize that this is a guy with a bar and a huge kite and he needs all the space between that bar and that kite completely free of obstruction and that it is dangerous to come between them. Even as a kid watching the tiny stunt kiters, I knew not to get between them and their kites because they do fly low.

Just flying small foils on land, I have seen people quite literally inching their way underneath my flight path, and it is incredibly frustrating to see that they don't even do something as simple as look up.

The general public _do_ have the right of way. However, they also have the responsibility of sense. They are frequenting a spot popular with kiters. They should know.

[Kamikuza]

A little background on this incident ...

Thanks for the info, bubble. So it's not stupidity that caused the problem, but assholiness - which is worse

It is correct to say that all of the horse ride operators ... have been around a lot longer than the kiters have.

I'm not having a go at you but that's no more an argument than is sticking out your bottom lip and crying to get your own way.

It's a public area, let's co-operate so we can both enjoy the space.

[Richie RIch]

To give you guys an update on the situation

As a result of this incident, there has been a lot of communication between Cayman's kiters - which I consider to be a good thing. I hope that now people feel they can say something if they see a kiter behaving in a way that could jeapordise their access.

A meeting is being set up between the horse companies and kite schools to try and find a solution that works for both horse riders and kiters. Hopefully, both parties can learn about the other's activities and some guidelines can be agreed on which will not only substantially reduce the threat to horse riders, but also reduce the chance of a new kiter getting injured.

In East End, we recommend that kiters launch from public beach, (a very nicely maintained beach with a shallow seagrass area infront) and that we maintain a 200 metre boundary from the busy resort beaches. This works out nicely, as the flatest water or wave riding exceeds this distance anyway. One resort already has a no-launching policy off their beach as a result of an accident, so we ask kiters to stay away from these highly populated beaches and launch from the significantly less busy Public Beach instead.

Richie

[Toby]

Richie, sounds good to come together and find solutions. The only way it will work.
And important, that kiters self-police themselves, so if someone endangers others, get him off the water. You will have all kiters behind you to keep access!

[RichardM]

Richie, sounds good to come together and find solutions. The only way it will work.
And important, that kiters self-police themselves, so if someone endangers others, get him off the water. You will have all kiters behind you to keep access!

I disagree. “SELF-POLICING” IS SELF-DELUSION.

Although our advice is geared toward conditions found in southern California and especially the Los Angeles and Ventura counties area, at Malibu Kitesurfing, when discussing this subject with beginner students during their kiteboarding lessons, we usually explain that:

It doesn't matter if "You will have all kiters behind you to keep access!"

Self-policing is not only ineffective, it is illegal to harass other people (including a$$hole kiters), can create substantial civil liability and ruin someone's kiting experience by involving them in a moronic and ineffective dispute instead of kiting.

Instead, contact the authority involved and INSIST that they handle it. This is the JOB of the local regulatory authority. It not only has the legal ability to take action, they are immune to any liability for doing so.

If it's necessary, sign a statement and be willing to testify about the a$$hole's behavior. Photos/video of a$$hole behavior should be very helpful. The goal is to have the a$$hole SEVERELY PUNISHED LEGALLY.

The majority of problems are caused by a very small percentage of a$$holes who think they are exempt from reasonable rules. After making examples of a couple of them, the seemingly endless number of wannabe a$$holes will magically disappear.

In the subject case, in California, the kiter could be charged criminally with both assault and battery and sued by both the victim and the horse club/school. If it could be alleged that he was working at the time, his kiteschool employer could also be sued. There may also be fines for violating park rules.

NON-KITERS SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR KITERS !!

Kiters must NEVER interfere with other beach users in ANY WAY. They almost always have a greater right to use the PUBLIC resource than kiters.

Any kiter who does not understand why we are the absolute BOTTOM of the food chain regarding PUBLIC beach use is part of the problem and should read the many threads regarding access to understand why this is so.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

[Kamikuza]

Richard, I think people are hoping that a quiet word in the ear will stop it from going to the council, police etc ... rather than parading around in a mob with pitchforks.

[RichardM]

Richard, I think people are hoping that a quiet word in the ear will stop it from going to the council, police etc ... rather than parading around in a mob with pitchforks.

The basis of self-delusion is frequently “hope”.

Why should ANOTHER " quiet word in the ear" of irresponsible a$$holes make any difference? You think the a$$hole in question didn't know that his actions were wrong?

Self-delusion is easy, but as evidenced from the steady reduction of access at places where "self-policing" was supposedly implemented, it is NOT EFFECTIVE and my point is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to effectively restrain the a$$holes whose behavior provides EXCUSES for the local regulatory authorities do LESS WORK by banning all kiters rather than doing their JOB by eliminating the problem kiters.

Unfortunately, most bureaucrats are more likely to actually try to appease the "mob with pitchforks" than a brownnoser afraid to demand that they do their jobs.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

[Windrider]

...
If it's necessary, sign a statement and be willing to testify about the a$$hole's behavior. Photos/video of a$$hole behavior should be very helpful. The goal is to have the a$$hole SEVERELY PUNISHED LEGALLY.

The majority of problems are caused by a very small percentage of a$$holes who think they are exempt from reasonable rules. After making examples of a couple of them, the seemingly endless number of wannabe a$$holes will magically disappear.

...
NON-KITERS SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR KITERS !!

Kiters must NEVER interfere with other beach users in ANY WAY. They almost always have a greater right to use the PUBLIC resource than kiters.

Any kiter who does not understand why we are the absolute BOTTOM of the food chain regarding PUBLIC beach use is part of the problem and should read the many threads regarding access to understand why this is so.

I completely agree. Non-kiters should never have to watch out for kiters. We are the ones creating the dangerous situation, not them. We can simply go further offshore and kite out there.

[Kamikuza]

Richard, I think people are hoping that a quiet word in the ear will stop it from going to the council, police etc ... rather than parading around in a mob with pitchforks.

The basis of self-delusion is frequently “hope”.

Why should ANOTHER " quiet word in the ear" of irresponsible a$$holes make any difference? You think the a$$hole in question didn't know that his actions were wrong?

Self-delusion is easy, but as evidenced from the steady reduction of access at places where "self-policing" was supposedly implemented, it is NOT EFFECTIVE and my point is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to effectively restrain the a$$holes whose behavior provides EXCUSES for the local regulatory authorities do LESS WORK by banning all kiters rather than doing their JOB by eliminating the problem kiters.

Unfortunately, most bureaucrats are more likely to actually try to appease the "mob with pitchforks" than a brownnoser afraid to demand that they do their jobs.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

Wow. So much love!
Obviously, if the quiet word doesn't work first time around then bring the hammer down. But to go straight to the big stick without giving people a chance to modify their behaviour isn't going to teach anybody anything - in their minds, you'll be the nice person, not themselves. Mind you, some people won't get it no matter how many times you beat them with the stick
I'd bet too that your local authorities aren't interested in "restraining" the (hopefully) minority of kiters or other beach users who are being a pain in the ass - my bet is if problems are brought to their attention enough times, they'll simply take the easy option and ban it outright anyway ...

I still don't see how we've got any less right to use a beach than any other tax paying citizen ...? Of course, we have to take more care, unlike the guys with the nerf frisbee, but I don't see how that puts us at the bottom of any food chain. That's my opinion from my vantage point - your beaches sound like a whole other set up ...

[Windrider]

...
I still don't see how we've got any less right to use a beach than any other tax paying citizen ...? Of course, we have to take more care, unlike the guys with the nerf frisbee, but I don't see how that puts us at the bottom of any food chain. That's my opinion from my vantage point - your beaches sound like a whole other set up ...

We have less rights because:

1) We are creating the dangerous situation - just like it being wrong to drive your speedboat through the crowd of swimmers, it is wrong to drive your kite through the crowd of swimmers

2) We are in the minority - they will outvote us in a democracy; they will beat us in a mob; they will win at a simple tug-of-war.