Hadlow ID vs Naish Park 2012

[skyte]

I wrote the long spiel about the iD in the quote above.
When I tried the RPM back to back with the iD I found it had a very light bar pressure... too light for me.
I think the thing with bar pressure is it all depends what you are used to (and how tired your arms are after a MotoX session )
The iD bar pressure is firm, yes, but its certainly not heavy like its hard to steer... I'd say its somewhere between a HADLOW Pro and an ION.
I find it perfect - it gives great feel as to where the kite is and it doesn't tire your arms out.
I'm sure you can firm up the bar pressure on the RPM, I just used it on the settings the pro rider I swapped with uses.
I think its clear that the iD, RPM and Park are all excellent kites - its clear from the high profile riders that are ripping on them and from the positive reviews that your average rider quotes. At the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either but expect to have to put some time in getting dialed in to any new kite!
Happy flying!

[Dr_Rosen]

.........
The iD bar pressure is firm, yes, but its certainly not heavy like its hard to steer... I'd say its somewhere between a HADLOW Pro and an ION.
I find it perfect - it gives great feel as to where the kite is and it doesn't tire your arms out.
I

Does that mean it has less or more bar pressure than the Hadlow Pro? I ride the Hadlow Pro's and I don't find the bar pressure very hard. Well yes there is some bar pressure of course, but not to much at all. Maybe it's the Hadlow bar where you ride with arms pretty stretched that helps....

Just had another perfect session on them today. That said, I do look forward to try the ID.

How's the relaunch of the ID?

[skyte]

The bar pressure is slightly firmer on the iD than on the HADLOW Pro, this is due to a slightly thicker leading edge and of course the bridle.

The relaunch is really easy and especially so if you are used to the HADLOW Pro... you can either reverse launch it by pulling both rear lines (I'm really bad at this technique, but Aaron seems to do it straight away, every time) or you can relaunch it like you would a traditional C-Kite.

What I do is quite simple... I always ride with a suicide leash and if I've crashed it nose down I just unhook and let go of the bar so it goes away from me onto the leash. This has the same effect as swimming towards it only much less effort Then I pull my self along the leash back to the bar and pull one line to get it to take off the water.

You can't just sit there pulling one line unless it just crashed at the edge of the window. You realy shouldn't have any issues relaunching the iD unless you've only ever flown kites that just require the pull one line and hope approach and have no idea of how else to relaunch a kite.

The new ION will have the "no brains, pull one line" relaunch, but if you want that true C-Kite feel you're probably going to have to deal with C-Kite relaunch! Because the profiles are aligned and the wingtips are not swept back, pulling one line does not have enough turning effect to get the kite to rotate when its on the water (there is a lot of LE touching the water and the wingtips won't stick up enough to drive the opposite shoulder round)

If you look at the attached pic (I hope it attaches!) then you can see how the profiles are aligned very much like the Hadlow Pro which helps give it that C kite, direct steering feel. If you are used to the HADLOW Pro, you will feel instantly at home on the iD and if you get used to the iD then progressing to a full blown C Kite will be no huge step. Be interesting to see if you agree with this when you try them. This is just my opinion and I'm a Flexi employee remember!

[endorphin]

Don't go for the Naish Park. A Kite that feels like a semi-finished kite. Personally i really don't like those kites. If you want to go for a Naish Kite go for the Torch - an awesome and quick kite with plenty of depower and very direct feeling.

i've already tested the 12m Flexi Hadlow id - best kite on bridles i've ever had in my hands. It's fast, feels like a c-kite, but has not the negative properties of a c-kite (for example clumsiness), has a great lift, pop and unhooked the id gives you total control and you always know where it is. The lines of the id-Bar are amazing - seems to be more of a q-powerline quality-stuff...

'live near(ly on) the beach and work as a kite teacher, have a quiver of 4 JN PD3s and a Flexi Ion 5 - i'm not biased to any brand and have my information concerning kites from testing many different stuff on my own and not from reading partly cocky internet reviews ...

[jedi1]

The relaunch is really easy and especially so if you are used to the HADLOW Pro... you can either reverse launch it by pulling both rear lines (I'm really bad at this technique, but Aaron seems to do it straight away, every time) or you can relaunch it like you would a traditional C-Kite.
...

but if you want that true C-Kite feel you're probably going to have to deal with C-Kite relaunch!

Nah, that's just bad design, if a bridled kite needs a swim or reverse relaunch. As for a C-kite feel to a C-kite relaunch relation: Slingshot has managed to make Fuel relaunch by pulling a rear line 3 years ago, so it is possible. Ozone's C4 relaunches on rear line as well (bridled like ID, but more C shaped).

[skyte]

Nah, that's just bad design, if a bridled kite needs a swim or reverse relaunch. As for a C-kite feel to a C-kite relaunch relation: Slingshot has managed to make Fuel relaunch by pulling a rear line 3 years ago, so it is possible. Ozone's C4 relaunches on rear line as well (bridled like ID, but more C shaped).

You can relaunch the HADLOW Pro and the iD with a reverse launch, I just prefer to let it out on the leash because that's how I find it easiest to relaunch. To say its bad design suggests to me that you don't understand what's going on.

When I flew the C4 I found it nothing like any C-Kite I had ever flown. It looks like a C kite from the beach, but from every other perspective it looked and felt more like a BOW kite. It is definitely not more C-Shaped than an iD - see diagram above - but we're getting into that whole argument of what exactly does C-Kite mean and that's been done to death. To me this looks like a BOW kite design that has been moved towards and given the image of a C-Kite rather than something that started life as a C-Kite. Really nice smooth handling though like all Ozone kites I've tried. Out of all the brands out there I think I have most respect for the Ozone aerodynamics... those boys really know their stuff and I want to try their speed wings

[stayfan]

Nah, that's just bad design, if a bridled kite needs a swim or reverse relaunch. As for a C-kite feel to a C-kite relaunch relation: Slingshot has managed to make Fuel relaunch by pulling a rear line 3 years ago, so it is possible. Ozone's C4 relaunches on rear line as well (bridled like ID, but more C shaped).

You can relaunch the HADLOW Pro and the iD with a reverse launch, I just prefer to let it out on the leash because that's how I find it easiest to relaunch. To say its bad design suggests to me that you don't understand what's going on.

When I flew the C4 I found it nothing like any C-Kite I had ever flown. It looks like a C kite from the beach, but from every other perspective it looked and felt more like a BOW kite. It is definitely not more C-Shaped than an iD - see diagram above - but we're getting into that whole argument of what exactly does C-Kite mean and that's been done to death. To me this looks like a BOW kite design that has been moved towards and given the image of a C-Kite rather than something that started life as a C-Kite. Really nice smooth handling though like all Ozone kites I've tried. Out of all the brands out there I think I have most respect for the Ozone aerodynamics... those boys really know their stuff and I want to try their speed wings

I think most people don't know what a bow design is!
C4 definitely isn't. It's a bridled C kite with a more open arc(flat).
A bow kite is like the name says, like a bow. The trailing edge of a bow kite is hollow and the leading edge follows that line.

[skyte]

C4 definitely isn't. It's a bridled C kite with a more open arc(flat).
.

LOL, so definitrely not a C-Kite then coz its got a bridle and an open arc.

I'm not trying to slate the C4 I just don't think it felt like any C Kite I've ever flown.

The iD on the other hand came from a pretty hardcore C-Kite as I illustrated in the diagram above. It does have a C-Kite feel to it and it does possess some qualities that make it a really user friendly kite too. Hopefully you can get to try one.

[jedi1]

Nah, that's just bad design, if a bridled kite needs a swim or reverse relaunch. As for a C-kite feel to a C-kite relaunch relation: Slingshot has managed to make Fuel relaunch by pulling a rear line 3 years ago, so it is possible. Ozone's C4 relaunches on rear line as well (bridled like ID, but more C shaped).

You can relaunch the HADLOW Pro and the iD with a reverse launch, I just prefer to let it out on the leash because that's how I find it easiest to relaunch. To say its bad design suggests to me that you don't understand what's going on.

I do understand, but still you put a bridle on a kite normally to aid depower and relaunch. That's what started the whole SLE kite movement.

As for C4 I'm not gonna argue about it, as I haven't flown it, I just stated it to show that a C kite design means no back line relaunch. If you say that C4 isn't one, then ok. But Fuel is definitely a C kite with excellent, easy relaunch.

I don't say ID is a bad kite, I would love to try it. But still doing a reverse or swim launch without your board in deep water is hard and not something I would expect from a bridled kite.

Just like the topic says, most people will expect a kite similar to Naish Park or Slingshot RPM, with good unhooked performance, some depower and easy relaunch.

[skyte]

Its not the bridle that makes the kite relaunch by pulling one line... its the shape of the kite - specifically, but not limited to, the degree to which the Leading Edge is swept back, how fat the wingtips are and how far back they are due to the LE sweep.

The Leading Edge diameter also makes a difference to relaunch... a thin LE can mean the kite can get pinned to the water since the thinner LE exerts less forces to open the kite up to catch wind again.

Witht he Fuel, its excellent relaunch is down to its fat wingtips which can generate a lot of reverse lift when its nose down on the water to lift the Leading Edge.

Anyhoo... most kites are easy to relaunch when you know how