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Opinion - FlySurfer decision

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joedy
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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby joedy » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:32 am

Mike,

Thank you for posting the official Flysurfer response.

I kept imagining myself in Rob's position since I've been saving for a year to purchase a Speed 21m. This is a major purchase for me and one that I keep mulling over since (like many other posters have pointed out) I can purchase several other kites for same amount of money.

Your reply (and Ted's reply pertaining to the USA customers) continue to reaffirm that I can expect similar, stellar treatment. Your offers to Rob would be acceptable to me if I were in his place and your offer appears to make him whole while allowing Flysurfer an opportunity to figure out what happened that led up to the lines failing.

This is the resolution that I've been waiting for. I hope that Rob finds it acceptable when he returns from holiday.

-joedy

ps. Were you the one that made the famous flat-water video riding the Speed 19m Deluxe and a Flydoor?

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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby poser » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:08 am

Treating him fairly? steppin up to the plate? what?
give the guy a brand new kite?
did you not read them last 17 pages of this post.
I had a speed 3 19m, the lines are piddly garbage compared to say a cab or naish or any other good inflato.
thin trash.

the FLS system sucks ass to the max, only fds really works.
the 3 line chicken loop line wears out in one good season.
ROB is a local toronto kiter.
Paul barube and mike dowie and flysurfer you should be ashamed.
Give the guy a new kite and stop screwing around.

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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby Life_Is_Awesome » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:44 am

poser wrote:Treating him fairly? steppin up to the plate? what?
give the guy a brand new kite? ...
Paul barube and mike dowie and flysurfer you should be ashamed.
Give the guy a new kite and stop screwing around.
md wrote: When it was reported to me initially, while Rob was on holidays, that a line on his kite had broken and caused some damage to the kite, the Flysurfer free-repair service was offered without question. The kite was purchased in August 2011. It was discussed at the time that he might be able to get some repairs done there so he would not be without the kite for his trip. ...

Without seeing things first hand, the location of the break and not having had past experience on the Speed3 indicating line failures without some sort of event, causing either an abnormal overload or damage to the lines, I was not in a position to be offering a new replacement kite.
...
The kite was not returned to the dealer/flysurfer for inspection/repairs that might have determined a fault in materials or workmanship.

A few days later after not hearing anything back, Flysurfer became aware of the situation and suggested that the kite be sent back to them for a like new repair. Free shipping costs and a replacement kite while his was sent to Germany was offered. We also offered a new white kite in exchange for his damaged green one. It was explained that the green version was not available as it was a limited edition and sold out. Rob refused to take his kite in so we could see it and/or send it to Flysurfer.
...
In the mean time Flysurfer managed to source some green material to make another kite the same color as Robs but it could take some time due to the Chinese New Year shut down at the factory.

I was just informed that FS has found a new green 12m at a dealer in Europe and should be able to get it here soon.

...
My first concern was weather Rob would be able to get his kite repaired sufficiently to have it in good working order for the rest of his holidays, and then deal with things upon return.

Thanks!
Mike Dowie
flysurfer.ca
Poser, there is no shame in this response from Mike and by Rob’s own endorsement Paul has been an excellent dealer throughout this. Quit being a flamer.

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Kamikuza
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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:03 am

poser wrote:Treating him fairly? steppin up to the plate? what?
give the guy a brand new kite?
did you not read them last 17 pages of this post.
I had a speed 3 19m, the lines are piddly garbage compared to say a cab or naish or any other good inflato.
thin trash.

the FLS system sucks ass to the max, only fds really works.
the 3 line chicken loop line wears out in one good season.
ROB is a local toronto kiter.
Paul barube and mike dowie and flysurfer you should be ashamed.
Give the guy a new kite and stop screwing around.
Cab recalled their lines last year ;)

If YOU actually read the reply from Mike, you'll see that AFTER they determined the extent and details of the claim, they ARE organizing a replacement :lol:

Liros lines are (if I'm not wrong) thinner and stronger and a tighter weave than regular lines. If you don't like 'em, fine. That's your opinion.

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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby PBKiteboarding » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:59 am

Both myself and Rob are in the same Country killer dial up...
Lots goes on behind the scene. Much of what happens is what Rob wrote and Mike an much time on the phone with Rob direct... great part of keeping Customers going... and answering question and support.
Line break while away, kite gets damaged.
Sort out what happened and get kite repaired there to (Keep riding while on Vacation)
Relay pictures to get an idea of what cause damage and kite damage.
Work with Flysurfer Distributor and Flysurfer Team.
New Kite offered by PBK only gold in stock, or Inflatable. with difference back.
Only Green wanted and Likes the Speed 12m and 21m (Keepers) Ask if any Greens around.
Get list of all parts needed to be ready for replacement on retrun home.
Bring kite in when home to inspect visually.
2 more lines (only) discovered damaged on Jan 13, that match the broken line.
Microscope and all... Kite got damage because of line break.
Replace all lines 4 hrs inspection an new lines including sewing in FLS attachement, adjust FLS not for kite size. 2 mini rings to replace elc's 2 back lines to be larks heads for new knoted back lines.
Repair small tab (Thread pulled)
Rob ready for trip next day. Get back on the water. We're off on our trips...
Now New Deluxe coming.
Next Step. Pick up kite and drop of lines for further inspection from Flysurfer and or Lines Manufactuer to find out what happened to the lines.

Customers can bring their kite to me or Ship for free repairs and warranty in many cases as I do Pro Kite Repairs on all types of kites. I also do experimental and even open cell to closed cell conversion... just lately with great Success! Also line ends sleeving, line shortening... etc... 24/7 service shop or cell or internet.. Flysurfer free Repair is a great and very rare service for a company to provide.

Ask lots of questions when getting a Flysurfer or any kite out there. Ask about flying experience of who you are buying from, what kind of support you'll get. Try to get someone who has knowledge of all kites... for water Inflatable and Closed cell kite, available for you to buy. The idea is to get on the kite that will help you enjoy Kiteboarding even more. Contact your Dealer where you got your kite if you have any problems. Dealers should work together as a Team with their Distributor and Flysurfer to sort it all out and keep riding! What a Sport!

Rob will be flying a brand new 12m Speed 3 Lime Green! and I'm happy to help along the way and look forward to flying with him next spring and maybe on our next trio south.

A crazy dial up here but yesterday 60km round trip on my 12m Speed and about 40km today on my 21m in 8 knots on a 140.... Sorry that lines caused Rob a hassle, and that is was so rare since I've never seen a Speed 3 line break like break on a new speed and I've sold many ... many happy Riders.. and I'm glad to here that Rob will continue to fly his Speeds... that says allot about the kites... sweet... Keep the kiting excitment going.. this window is bouncing (Can't see what is typing) and on crazy dial up in tropics.. Lots happens behind the scenes in the Kite World and it's great to see it all come together...

fix a bit 1 minute in my internet card left.... time to go.

Paul
www.PBKiteboarding.com
Last edited by PBKiteboarding on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby Gfly » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:10 pm

@The Capitan

ad1: The front lines are factory dark grey not black. My pics might be over-exposured so in the pics the lines are looking white.
ad2; Why the one broken and one damaged, both an inch or so ABOVE the block? I land the kite myself and was about the wrap the lines on the bar when it picked up again because of sudden gust. I activated the quick release and happened. The the lines were tangled and the block got somehow into it and damage them. Dont ask me why, it was weird. It could be also my fault but the aluminum block was not the best solution therefore I went for simpler solution.

@All
The cylinder is a huge improvement (in my opinion),
1. It does not ware off the lines as the aluminum block does, because front lines do not have go trough it and it further reduce the
2. It allows you to detach front lineas easily
3. You do not have knots on the end of the front lines
4. It is easier and more elegant solution

About the quality of FS speed3;
The canopy of FS is great quality so are the all the lines from the canopy to the front-main and back-main. I have never have any problems with them. Good job FS on that. The bar is fine and depower system works well for me - no complains

However the stitching on the ends of the front and back lines is something I do not trust and when I see the stitching treads going off I know I have to do something about it.

You must bear in mind that if one of the front line breaks the back line on it side does as well. At least I was in my and Robfly case. That tells me two things:
1. Simple stitching as it factory made, does not sustain such a massive & sudden increase in load. (Wonder if FS have ever tested it?)
I was lucky and my kite was spared. Rob was unlucky and his kite was damaged.

2. Condition of the lines is paramount to not having your canopy damaged
Better be save than sorry therefore I have sleeved all the ends of the lines to eliminate the problem

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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm

Stitching in lines that have loops or eyes spliced in them is only there to stop the loop working itself loose (un-splicing) when there is no load on it... it's the pull on loop that locks the lines onto itself that's holding it in place, not the stitching.

Sleeving and stitching is another option - which is probably cheaper and quicker and no doubt why most other companies use it.

I don't like that block either - it looks like a real cludge.

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Re: Opinion - FlySurfer decision

Postby poser » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:48 pm

If he is getting a new kite then that is cool.
That's the way it should be.
Now you guys don't need to be ashamed anymore and you can walk out in public with your heads held high.
Now, should we talk about how FLS sucks ass major or how no other kiters on the beach want to land your foil?
Or solo landing in high winds impossibleness.
or just drop the tread? :-))

Only joking


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