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Quick release harness it time

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tomatkins
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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby tomatkins » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:52 pm

Here is something to be considered and is related to the topic:

How will a loose kite act, when it is totally released, and dragging a harness, which is attached to it's chicken loop?

In a past KF thread concerning the value of bar "floaties" (those foam tubes on the rear lines, at the bar), the point was brought up, that the "floaties" keep the bar on the surface and stop it from sinking, when the kite is completely released. It was noted that, if the bar sinks, the added force of the water on the bar, causes the kite to form itself into a "wind-catcher", and this makes the kite move faster, and therefore, is much harder to run after and catch.

Will an attached harness create the same effect, of increasing the resistance, resulting in more pull from the kite? Or will there be another effect, that might make it easier to catch the kite? Will an attached harness, to a freely moving kite, cause the kite to relaunch, in a way that is more dangerous to an unwary, innocent bystander? If the kiter has the stopper ball engaged, when the kite and harness are cut loose, will that make a difference?

In thinking about this, consider that the harness could be attached to either the chicken loop or it could be attached to the kite's safety strap.

Any hypothesis would be pretty easy to test... anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment? Just find some shallow water, with a kite-catcher-buddy located down wind... and do a controlled study, with and without a harness attached.

Let her fly!... report the results.

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby dyyylan » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:28 pm

tomatkins wrote:Here is something to be considered and is related to the topic:

How will a loose kite act, when it is totally released, and dragging a harness, which is attached to it's chicken loop?

In a past KF thread concerning the value of bar "floaties" (those foam tubes on the rear lines, at the bar), the point was brought up, that the "floaties" keep the bar on the surface and stop it from sinking, when the kite is completely released. It was noted that, if the bar sinks, the added force of the water on the bar, causes the kite to form itself into a "wind-catcher", and this makes the kite move faster, and therefore, is much harder to run after and catch.

Will an attached harness create the same effect, of increasing the resistance, resulting in more pull from the kite? Or will there be another effect, that might make it easier to catch the kite? Will an attached harness, to a freely moving kite, cause the kite to relaunch, in a way that is more dangerous to an unwary, innocent bystander? If the kiter has the stopper ball engaged, when the kite and harness are cut loose, will that make a difference?

In thinking about this, consider that the harness could be attached to either the chicken loop or it could be attached to the kite's safety strap.

Any hypothesis would be pretty easy to test... anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment? Just find some shallow water, with a kite-catcher-buddy located down wind... and do a controlled study, with and without a harness attached.

Let her fly!... report the results.

Honestly though... who is releasing their kite all the time for this to matter? Might be better to work on some kitesurfing fundamentals than to create all these crazy safety things for kooks that are still going to hurt themselves anyway, and burden non-idiots with a ton of crap on the harness that just gets in the way or might cause an accidental release.

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby tony montana » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:06 pm

dyyylan wrote:
tomatkins wrote:Here is something to be considered and is related to the topic:

How will a loose kite act, when it is totally released, and dragging a harness, which is attached to it's chicken loop?

In a past KF thread concerning the value of bar "floaties" (those foam tubes on the rear lines, at the bar), the point was brought up, that the "floaties" keep the bar on the surface and stop it from sinking, when the kite is completely released. It was noted that, if the bar sinks, the added force of the water on the bar, causes the kite to form itself into a "wind-catcher", and this makes the kite move faster, and therefore, is much harder to run after and catch.

Will an attached harness create the same effect, of increasing the resistance, resulting in more pull from the kite? Or will there be another effect, that might make it easier to catch the kite? Will an attached harness, to a freely moving kite, cause the kite to relaunch, in a way that is more dangerous to an unwary, innocent bystander? If the kiter has the stopper ball engaged, when the kite and harness are cut loose, will that make a difference?

In thinking about this, consider that the harness could be attached to either the chicken loop or it could be attached to the kite's safety strap.

Any hypothesis would be pretty easy to test... anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment? Just find some shallow water, with a kite-catcher-buddy located down wind... and do a controlled study, with and without a harness attached.

Let her fly!... report the results.

Honestly though... who is releasing their kite all the time for this to matter? Might be better to work on some kitesurfing fundamentals than to create all these crazy safety things for kooks that are still going to hurt themselves anyway, and burden non-idiots with a ton of crap on the harness that just gets in the way or might cause an accidental release.
For emergency only,before i posted this idea i asked a couple of kiters about this idea guys started on whipka,flexifoil,peter lynn,1988 1989 kiting since,they thought it was a good idea,not kooks,we were all kooks at some stage and if it helps kooks from hurting themselves and other people great,i think i qr my kite once this year,its not about that its about death loops when normal qr wont work,because of twisted lines etc Tony

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby Saami » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:38 pm

tomatkins wrote:Here is something to be considered and is related to the topic:

How will a loose kite act, when it is totally released, and dragging a harness, which is attached to it's chicken loop?

In a past KF thread concerning the value of bar "floaties" (those foam tubes on the rear lines, at the bar), the point was brought up, that the "floaties" keep the bar on the surface and stop it from sinking, when the kite is completely released. It was noted that, if the bar sinks, the added force of the water on the bar, causes the kite to form itself into a "wind-catcher", and this makes the kite move faster, and therefore, is much harder to run after and catch.

Will an attached harness create the same effect, of increasing the resistance, resulting in more pull from the kite? Or will there be another effect, that might make it easier to catch the kite? Will an attached harness, to a freely moving kite, cause the kite to relaunch, in a way that is more dangerous to an unwary, innocent bystander? If the kiter has the stopper ball engaged, when the kite and harness are cut loose, will that make a difference?

In thinking about this, consider that the harness could be attached to either the chicken loop or it could be attached to the kite's safety strap.

Any hypothesis would be pretty easy to test... anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment? Just find some shallow water, with a kite-catcher-buddy located down wind... and do a controlled study, with and without a harness attached.

Let her fly!... report the results.
I've had this happen once. The stitching in my waist harness tore open, and the bar was ripped out of my hands. This resulted in the situation you asked about - a loose kite dragging a harness, attached to the harness chicken loop.

In my case, the kite crashed into the water, and after that the harness appeared to slow down the escaping kite, by acting as a drag anchor. The kite was nose-down on the water, being pushed downwind by the wind; but the harness became submerged just beneath the surface of the water. The resistance from the harness dragging through the water appeared to slow the kite down. At any rate, I was able to swim fast enough to actually catch up with the escaping bar & harness. My feeling at the time was that there was no way that I would have been able to catch up with the kite if it hadn't been for the harness acting like a drag anchor (but in retrospect I don't know this for sure). The windspeed was around 20 knots, the harness was a Dakine Pyro 2008, and the kite a 10.5m Wainman Rabbitt.

Anyhow, that's just one single result, or data point for your survey :-) I'm sure that the outcome would vary widely. I can easily imagine that the "drag anchor" harness could also enable the kite to power up and re-launch itself.

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby tony montana » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:50 pm

Saami wrote:
tomatkins wrote:Here is something to be considered and is related to the topic:

How will a loose kite act, when it is totally released, and dragging a harness, which is attached to it's chicken loop?

In a past KF thread concerning the value of bar "floaties" (those foam tubes on the rear lines, at the bar), the point was brought up, that the "floaties" keep the bar on the surface and stop it from sinking, when the kite is completely released. It was noted that, if the bar sinks, the added force of the water on the bar, causes the kite to form itself into a "wind-catcher", and this makes the kite move faster, and therefore, is much harder to run after and catch.

Will an attached harness create the same effect, of increasing the resistance, resulting in more pull from the kite? Or will there be another effect, that might make it easier to catch the kite? Will an attached harness, to a freely moving kite, cause the kite to relaunch, in a way that is more dangerous to an unwary, innocent bystander? If the kiter has the stopper ball engaged, when the kite and harness are cut loose, will that make a difference?

In thinking about this, consider that the harness could be attached to either the chicken loop or it could be attached to the kite's safety strap.

Any hypothesis would be pretty easy to test... anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment? Just find some shallow water, with a kite-catcher-buddy located down wind... and do a controlled study, with and without a harness attached.

Let her fly!... report the results.
I've had this happen once. The stitching in my waist harness tore open, and the bar was ripped out of my hands. This resulted in the situation you asked about - a loose kite dragging a harness, attached to the harness chicken loop.

In my case, the kite crashed into the water, and after that the harness appeared to slow down the escaping kite, by acting as a drag anchor. The kite was nose-down on the water, being pushed downwind by the wind; but the harness became submerged just beneath the surface of the water. The resistance from the harness dragging through the water appeared to slow the kite down. At any rate, I was able to swim fast enough to actually catch up with the escaping bar & harness. My feeling at the time was that there was no way that I would have been able to catch up with the kite if it hadn't been for the harness acting like a drag anchor (but in retrospect I don't know this for sure). The windspeed was around 20 knots, the harness was a Dakine Pyro 2008, and the kite a 10.5m Wainman Rabbitt.

Anyhow, that's just one single result, or data point for your survey :-) I'm sure that the outcome would vary widely. I can easily imagine that the "drag anchor" harness could also enable the kite to power up and re-launch itself.
I think this is a power to weight subject,mabey someone can work this out Tony

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby whiteout » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:46 pm

A knife might be the solution.

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby gbleck » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:01 am

The term your looking for is sea anchor.

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby tony montana » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:29 am

whiteout wrote:A knife might be the solution.
A knife in a death loop wont work,its got to be instant release,it actualy might make things worse,imagine trying to cut a cabrina depower with a knife,probaly take two minutes sitting down,having a cup of tea,Harness quick release can be positioned in gun holster position most natural position for quick release.Tony

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby tony montana » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:31 am

gbleck wrote:The term your looking for is sea anchor.
So i can use my harness to self launch,good to know,Tony

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Re: Quick release harness it time

Postby tony montana » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:56 pm

Mystic is first harness to have QR on handle pass and have added to multiple harness for 2013 good news,mabey a good company like mystic ,will develop QR spreader bar or QR harness,only when the shit hits the fan can you really appreciate this innovation,Tony


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