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Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:05 am
by Kamikuza
Flight Time wrote:
Kamikuza wrote:What is wind?
*Nods head* Yes, that is a deep question. Profound, actually. If we examine it from a scientific standpoint, it is currents in the atmosphere caused by the uneven heating of the earth by the sun, creating areas of high pressure from which the molecules of air move, towards areas of lower pressure. Added to this, the spin of the Earth, and the gravitational pull of the moon contribute a certain unpredictability...
On the global scale, that's right. But don't forget local variations in geography that produce thermal winds... I think that's what we're seeing in that photo.

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:00 am
by joriws
knotmyfault wrote: No wind ? No way !

Image
Like somebody said it is temperature inversion layer preventing the wind entering ice surface. Those pipes are from big paper factories at Oulu, Finland and are at least 50m tall. On the sound track there are many kiters present with most flying LEIs and they are OMG.

During winter time we get nice thermal layer effects, like in the morning we have wind 8m/s, then suddenly thermal layer kicks in and wind drops to 0m/s at surface but from smoke you can see that >50m there is wind. After 30 minutes wind comes back to surface.

As a proof that at kite flying altitude there is no wind you can fly with the kite 360 degree circle. If there was wind even 1m/s (3.6km/h = almost normal walking speed) you could not fly the kite 360 circle by walking, because you need to have 3.6km/h speed component downwind when the kite is upwind to remove effect of 1m/s wind. The guy is walking steady round circle and kite flies 360.

I've also flown 360 kite circles, with foils it is possible. I am yet to see a video where Infinity prototype V10 is doing 360 circle flown by PMU.

Here is my helmet cam video which is shake stabilized. My 12DLX S3 starts from where the wind window was before thermal layer kicked in. At the background you can see the LEIs grounded.
https://www.facebook.com/v/10150730857033430

And believe me (because I've done it) that on this circumstance it is possible to kite home with my kites. You need hard snow and skis (instead of snowboard) to kick in little speed to yourself and small pull on front lines and TRUE light wind capable kite carries you home!

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:07 am
by joriws
My picture of thermal layers. That smoke pipe is 25m tall, smoke rises 50m directly up and goes through thermal layer and wind catches it. On the surface it is calm.
2010-12-15 16.33.09.jpg

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:09 am
by longwhitecloud
Just ask IKA what they told ISAF for the olympic reports.

2 knots kite MAY drop in water, - 3-4 knots can launch a kite (elevation report)

4 knots and you are immediately on the plane (technical report)


what a crock of shit :-)

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:52 am
by Kamikuza
joriws wrote:As a proof that at kite flying altitude there is no wind you can fly with the kite 360 degree circle. If there was wind even 1m/s (3.6km/h = almost normal walking speed) you could not fly the kite 360 circle by walking, because you need to have 3.6km/h speed component downwind when the kite is upwind to remove effect of 1m/s wind. The guy is walking steady round circle and kite flies 360.

I've also flown 360 kite circles, with foils it is possible. I am yet to see a video where Infinity prototype V10 is doing 360 circle flown by PMU.
Good point - I've done 360s with 5m, 8.8m and 12m fixed bridle foils... on handles :lol: and in zero wind. Any wind at all and the kite gets knocked down on the 'upwind' leg :thumb:

With an LEI? Can't see why it wouldn't be possible - assuming you could get the kite in the air...

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:01 pm
by Dimitri M
Guys no more talking let's go kiting!!!!!

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:20 pm
by Toby
Dimitri, this is not the most sexy picture topic!

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:28 pm
by joriws
Kamikuza wrote: Good point - I've done 360s with 5m, 8.8m and 12m fixed bridle foils... on handles :lol: and in zero wind. Any wind at all and the kite gets knocked down on the 'upwind' leg :thumb:

With an LEI? Can't see why it wouldn't be possible - assuming you could get the kite in the air...
I think it could be quite hard as LEIs usually are nose-heavy causing them to hinderburg down in lulls. So flying 360 circle with walking/small pulls on the centerline might not work that good. Perhaps with wave LEI it is achievable if they drift well and are more stable?

But 360 circle can be done in higher wind if your "platform" of riding supports it. But for kite's upwind leg you need more speed downwind than the wind is.

I like this video as it is awesome on timing, inertia- and kite handling skills.. I plan to try the 360c on ice with skis or skates with lowish wind.



Dimitri M, I would go kiting but no chicks at the beach with bikinis as now it is -16C/3F outside, thermal layer calm and ice on lakes has just started forming. So it is talk time :)

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:35 pm
by Flight Time
Anyone who happens to be trying to fly their kite in circles in no wind instead of kicked back with a cold beverage and a good book has a little problem. 8)

At that point, the kite is about as good as a birthday balloon, so might as well land it and find something better to do. :lol:

Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:44 pm
by Ted B
If there is a "LITEWIND SHOWDOWN" in the USA , I wanna Be there!!! Lets set the Dates!
no talking ,no hype and most of all no Excuses. May the best litewindmachine reveal itself!!

Now lets stop all the hating on Kiteforum.. I am always amazed at the hate here the negativity, come on people, This is KITEBOARDING the sport that changes lives the reason we are all here on this forum is not for negativity its because we all love the sport of kiteboarding...Dimitry is one of my great kite friends and he is passionate about his gear and I Really respect him for this. How can you blame him for wanting to tell the world...

Ride what you love, love what you Ride!!!
Every Day is a Kiteday!!!!