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Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:26 pm
by eree
windfreak74 wrote:Interesting to see different opinions on the subject.
I was just speculating to get an answer from someone that has experimented on it.maybe on the material thickness used and sewing it...
well may be sewing it is not the solution. there are lot of adhesives that flexible and reliable enough to do the job. after all, kites we are using now more glued together than stitched (apart from LE seem of course)

i think it is really question of the weight of the different sail cloths with the same strength properties.

well, may be if the sail material is cheap enough to make easy repairable and replaceable kites from the less tough material, it would be reasonable to make kites of that material.

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:55 pm
by tautologies
eree wrote:
i think it is really question of the weight of the different sail cloths with the same strength properties.
yup I think perception of weight vs. strength vs. price would be the algorithm. :thumb:

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:06 am
by Starsky
Get rid of the sewing or at least most of it and you can drop the price by a chunk. Probably increase canopy strength to not have postage stamp perforations throughout. Get rid of the bladder and drop it another chunk in both price and weight. Maybe a dacron inflatable frame like we know it but sealed from the inside. Inflate it with some kind of vaporised sealant, let it build up to a thin but lasting airtight coating. Re apply selectively or throughout after repair or a few years hard use. Would probably make for a bomb proof frame to have a fully bonded inner layer. Imagine never having to re install a bladder again! Forget larger inflate valves, the first to bring a working version of that to market will own it. just tape on a repair patch and inflate with something like one of those spare tire in a can jobbies and you have a pretty quick and easy minor repair process.

There is a future, and it has better kites!

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:21 am
by edt
eree wrote: well may be sewing it is not the solution. there are lot of adhesives that flexible and reliable enough to do the job. after all, kites we are using now more glued together than stitched (apart from LE seem of course)
u cant glue a kite, glue has many different properties it has stickiness, bonding strength, strength of the glue but what you need in a glue for a kite is flexibility and if you use that (instead of say resin epoxy) there is going to be creep. The glue itself never has to fail but what happens is that over the weeks, the glue creeps more and more until finally it's a bag not a kite.

You have to sew it. You can glue it and sew it both, that's the best, glue gives you a great bond and the sewing is more like a lock stitch to keep it from creeping but here you are driving up the costs not down.

but there's lots of good ideas here. Maybe a disposable glued kite (kites arent really permanent) that is only supposed to last 6 months.

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:20 am
by Starsky
Best before dates.... thats kinda scary

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:57 pm
by eree
windfreak74 wrote:Interesting to see different opinions on the subject.
I was just speculating to get an answer from someone that has experimented on it.maybe on the material thickness used and sewing it.
Ive use tyvek suits for painting and i dont think that the right thickness.
they rip.
but the ones used for enveloves and roofing insulation are very tough as hell but maybe the weigh is not right.
that is the problem with people who not familiar with the technical aspects of the thread.
tyvek makes disposable materials and also the sturdy reliable weatherproof materials.

there are lot of applications of the tyvek material as there are lot of applications of the polyester based clothes, like teijin or dacron.

i repair my kites myself. unfortunately the teijin cloth is so weak, every time my kite hits the water surface with the force it makes the canopy rip in figure H!
if it would be tyvek there will be probably just 30 to 50cm cut in the sail cloth. easily repairable by gluing.

but no!
kite industry is so ignorant, inert and stagnant they can not think beyond hot ballooning and paragliding!
they are just enjoying the status quo for supply and demand, giving us the crap we are gladly willing to declare the perfect, just because we've bought it...

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:45 pm
by Certeza
eree wrote:
windfreak74 wrote:Interesting to see different opinions on the subject.
I was just speculating to get an answer from someone that has experimented on it.maybe on the material thickness used and sewing it.
Ive use tyvek suits for painting and i dont think that the right thickness.
they rip.
but the ones used for enveloves and roofing insulation are very tough as hell but maybe the weigh is not right.
that is the problem with people who not familiar with the technical aspects of the thread.
tyvek makes disposable materials and also the sturdy reliable weatherproof materials.

there are lot of applications of the tyvek material as there are lot of applications of the polyester based clothes, like teijin or dacron.

i repair my kites myself. unfortunately the teijin cloth is so weak, every time my kite hits the water surface with the force it makes the canopy rip in figure H!
if it would be tyvek there will be probably just 30 to 50cm cut in the sail cloth. easily repairable by gluing.

but no!
kite industry is so ignorant, inert and stagnant they can not think beyond hot ballooning and paragliding!
they are just enjoying the status quo for supply and demand, giving us the crap we are gladly willing to declare the perfect, just because we've bought it...
The OP was specifically asking about the Tyvek House Wrap, not variations of tyvek material. Specifically, that stuff doesn't hold up well in constant exposure to UV and water. It permanently deforms fairly easily under stress. Flapping causes the structural integrity to drop rapidly. A kite made out of this would essentially be "disposable". And NOISY!

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:58 pm
by eree
Certeza wrote:The OP was specifically asking about the Tyvek House Wrap, not variations of tyvek material. Specifically, that stuff doesn't hold up well in constant exposure to UV and water. It permanently deforms fairly easily under stress. Flapping causes the structural integrity to drop rapidly. A kite made out of this would essentially be "disposable". And NOISY!
Recently ive finish building my home and i had some left over tyvek . a form o breathable fiber insulation.
i tried to rip that stuff and its imposible.
Has anyone tested or used this to build kite canopy it is really light weigh.
Ive just read an article that they are using this to build shoes.
Can someone comment on it?
so you make a choice and you make a decision?

Re: new aplication of material to build kites

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:03 pm
by windfreak74
Its important to keep an open mind.
probably current type of building tyvek does not aply. but doest mean that tyvek cant be developed for a cheap sailing cloth
.The use of a specific development of tyvek cloth for sailing is something we could see in the future? who knows?
just wanted to hear if anyone had aplied it to kitting.
:thumb: