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Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

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corbett
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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby corbett » Wed May 11, 2016 4:06 am

Both I and my friend Foilholio have a dislike of kite re-sellers. In my experience, they no longer offer the service they provided 10 years ago.

My question to Flysurfer is this:

1.What background checks do you perform on Flysurfer kite-resellers before you let them re-sell?
2.I understand that none of the current staff at the re-seller called powerkiteshop.com have flown any current flysurfer kite. Is that allowed?
3.If a re-seller has so many consumer complaints against it, would they then be barred from officially re-selling Flysurfer products as would an Avon doorstep re-seller?

I believe Flysurfer should adopt Avon Cosmetics re-selling rules regarding re-selling as so many of your re-sellers have gone rogue.

Regards,
-Robert Corbett,
Kitersagainstresellers.ru

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby sedluk » Wed May 11, 2016 1:19 pm

The world of retail has been changing and will continue to change. This change has nothing to do with kiteboarding or more specificly Flysurfer.

There are a few people excited about having a kite company direct to consumers. From what I can tell, most people are still buying other kites.

Time will tell how it all works out. Interestingly in other product spaces it is the premium brands that seem to be ones able to support direct to consumer sales. Take Apple and Tesla as the best examples. The interesting thing so far is that no one is saving any money buying iPhones or Teala cars. They are about the most expensive products for what you get. They have huge brand awareness and are direct because the can and the company keeps all the money, not the consumer.

I would suspect that kiteboarding, because of the small market and lack of household brand awareness would be the last market where direct to consumer will take over.

I think it would be best for this thread to stick with kiteboarding and answering Flysurfer questions.

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby Flyfish » Wed May 11, 2016 2:59 pm

End the bullshit whining about marketing. Start another topic. Leave this thread to questions and awnsers.

Armin,
I know I am in the minority but I wave kite with foils. I know that this is not the norm, but have you completely abandoned the psycho 4 or even the speed 4 (8-10 meter) non lotus line of kites?

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby windrider1 » Wed May 11, 2016 4:46 pm

I agree with u I think all these comments complaining about how flysurfer runs its business is not productive. Lets stick to questions and answers about the products themselves . I mean we may or may not agree but who are u to try to tell these guys how to run their business. let the market determine that. I'm pretty sure u can't do any better at designing kites or running a company like that.


sedluk wrote:The world of retail has been changing and will continue to change. This change has nothing to do with kiteboarding or more specificly Flysurfer.

There are a few people excited about having a kite company direct to consumers. From what I can tell, most people are still buying other kites.

Time will tell how it all works out. Interestingly in other product spaces it is the premium brands that seem to be ones able to support direct to consumer sales. Take Apple and Tesla as the best examples. The interesting thing so far is that no one is saving any money buying iPhones or Teala cars. They are about the most expensive products for what you get. They have huge brand awareness and are direct because the can and the company keeps all the money, not the consumer.

I would suspect that kiteboarding, because of the small market and lack of household brand awareness would be the last market where direct to consumer will take over.

I think it would be best for this thread to stick with kiteboarding and answering Flysurfer questions.

windrider1
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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby windrider1 » Wed May 11, 2016 4:55 pm

The Speed 4 has been replaced by the speed 5. I have the speed 4 10m and its a great kite . very smooth and easy to work with kite. i can see where it would work in waves. i don't think they go backwards in kite development so the era of the speed 4 is gone. There are rumors of another psycho though.


Flyfish wrote:End the bullshit whining about marketing. Start another topic. Leave this thread to questions and awnsers.

Armin,
I know I am in the minority but I wave kite with foils. I know that this is not the norm, but have you completely abandoned the psycho 4 or even the speed 4 (8-10 meter) non lotus line of kites?

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby foilholio » Thu May 12, 2016 3:49 am

Yes but what flyfish is getting at is flysurfer has always had wave kites and now there are none. Contrary to popular belief foil kites are actually very good in the surf and not just for racing. The larger sized deluxe pyscho 4s are the most capable drifting of any kite ever. For some reason, most likely team rider driven, they decided to release a C kite. Sad they must have disappointed everyone with that kite all the wannabes because it had bridles and everyone else because well it was a C kite.

As to how flysurfer sells their gear it is well worth discussing. The examples raise of Tesla and Apple, are far from the limit of products that can be bought direct. Even then Tesla offers the BEST value in it's class and Apple offers products that are unique and of very high quality. Even in kiting there is quite a few direct brands already. Switch and Pansh are but two. Both offer value for money hard to impossible to find elsewhere. It's sad when I see a brand like Flysurfer that has so many unique ideas and so much potential getting choked to death by it's resellers. Anyway doesn't concern me too much any more I have Pansh and the A15, nearly as good as the pyscho4 and speed 4 lotus so not a big problem anymore. I still would love to contribute to flysurfer designing new and better kites just not some resellers arrogant behavior.

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alexrider
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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby alexrider » Thu May 12, 2016 10:20 pm

Flyfish wrote:End the bullshit whining about marketing. Start another topic. Leave this thread to questions and awnsers.
:thumb:
Flyfish wrote:Armin,
I know I am in the minority but I wave kite with foils. I know that this is not the norm, but have you completely abandoned the psycho 4 or even the speed 4 (8-10 meter) non lotus line of kites?

Thanks,
Jim
Good question I was going to ask Armin too. Indeed the Psycho 4 and Speed4 (first gen), were the best FS wave kites, but for that purpose I would have preferred even lower aspect ratio, or more C shape like (similar to the Peter Lynn Venom, but easier to relaunch and better bridle supported canopy), faster turning kites.
:bye:
Alex

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby foilholio » Fri May 13, 2016 12:45 am

Alex the PL Venoms 1 and 2 are AR 5.0 ,which is higher aspect than both the pyscho4 AR 4.5/4.65( old calculations) and speed4 original AR 4.85. They may have looked lower AR because of the permanent C shape. The pyscho4 is actually capable of even more C shape with the tips actually curling inwards. It achieves this flying on A. If you read and understood viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392205 you would know why you may not have seen it. I actually get the most C shape by tuning past the standard mixer depower point. The C shape is dependent on canopy shape so flysurfer QC can effect it. The C shape is tunable with negatives and benefits for having more C depowered, mainly the tips are more likely to tuck in turns with more.

I am quite happy with the AR on the pyscho4 except maybe lower the 10 and increase the 15+, as kites already with higher aspect work well with high AR than the pyscho4 in these sizes. Lower like pulse or unity type may work but the airfoils would need to be much thinner as they are both too slow. I am concerned that a lower AR will lose too much boosting and upwind which the psycho4 is quite good at compared to most inflatables, obviously not higher aspect foils though.

I think flysurfer tried to tackle too much with the speed4 original, high projected area change and only 3 bridle rows. I would not be surprised if the B row placement forward is critical to making the Flat arc shape work well, which is already problematic on the pyscho4 with many people having trouble using it. I have often wondered what if a secondary bridle was on A to change it's shape? or B moved much further forward.

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby Jzh_perth » Fri May 13, 2016 8:35 am

corbett wrote:Both I and my friend Foilholio have a dislike of kite re-sellers. In my experience, they no longer offer the service they provided 10 years ago.

My question to Flysurfer is this:

1.What background checks do you perform on Flysurfer kite-resellers before you let them re-sell?
2.I understand that none of the current staff at the re-seller called powerkiteshop.com have flown any current flysurfer kite. Is that allowed?
3.If a re-seller has so many consumer complaints against it, would they then be barred from officially re-selling Flysurfer products as would an Avon doorstep re-seller?

I believe Flysurfer should adopt Avon Cosmetics re-selling rules regarding re-selling as so many of your re-sellers have gone rogue.

Regards,
-Robert Corbett,
Kitersagainstresellers.ru
I probably shouldn't comment but I'm a Flysurfer reseller in Western Australia.

Before I set up my business I have owned Speed 2's and 3's, and absolutely loved the products. Not being able to test and buy them locally was the catalyst for me.

I can't comment about other resellers but some factors that have helped me grow my customer base have included having stock for demo, being able to give instruction for first time foil flyers, and being able to maintain and repair the bridles.

I think in any industry, customer service is where it's at. The rest is just fluff.

Armin and Ramon have made me feel very welcome to be a new member of the Flysurfer family, I simply wanted to say as much.

Oh Flyfish - I also wave kite with mine :)

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Re: Flysurfer Forum Chat! Ask all your Flysurfer questions here!

Postby foilonfoil » Tue May 17, 2016 12:41 am

Armin Harich wrote: We use quite stong lines, to have room for aging/wear. We have statistics, where the line breaks and it is well balances, if it really snaps. I just would avoid to have sand between the connection and pull it tight before launching.

The Problem of bigger Pig tails is, that they easy catch a thin bridle which can be dangerous at launch or make relaunching impossible and will result to a swim. Even a death spiral can be possible.

We extended the Mixer, to get more away from the bridles to improve catching of bridles even more and to avoid the death spiral. If someone wants to add pigtails, we can do it. But from our experience, that is the safe solution.

Good Luck to Alexrider to get back his Sonic!

Thank you, Armin
When flying lines break, the shock will also break bridle lines. The risk associated with a swim home way outweighs the risk of a bridle line catching a pig tail.


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