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Foil - wave riding

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bigtone667
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:26 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm
cor wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:07 pm
Those videos are looking really unimpressive. Where is the action and the fun? No cut backs, no splashes, no slashing, no tight turn angles... just riding gently down the line. When I saw the first videos of wave kiting back then, it was the exact opposite! I was stoked and addicted immediately, before I've even tried it myself.

But I don't want to judge before I haven't given it a try and I love to foil in flat water and doing tricks etc. Maybe there is something appealing to foiling in the waves that you cannot see but you need to feel to understand. Will give it definitely a try.
I agree with you 100%. Video cannot convey the feeling you get from actually riding the wave with a foil without the kites power. I cannot speak for others, but I want to be able to ride the waves like I do on my SUP foilboard, wave power only and kite just drifting. I would also love to be able to do more radical cutbacks, and am working on a way to do that without the kite falling out of the sky. Current wave kites do not drift well enough to go full speed on the bottom turn, but eventually the brands will make something that will work for this.

--
Gunnar
Try a BRM Cloud ...... they are so light, they just drift backwards like a feather.

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gmb13
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby gmb13 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:29 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:26 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm
cor wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:07 pm
Those videos are looking really unimpressive. Where is the action and the fun? No cut backs, no splashes, no slashing, no tight turn angles... just riding gently down the line. When I saw the first videos of wave kiting back then, it was the exact opposite! I was stoked and addicted immediately, before I've even tried it myself.

But I don't want to judge before I haven't given it a try and I love to foil in flat water and doing tricks etc. Maybe there is something appealing to foiling in the waves that you cannot see but you need to feel to understand. Will give it definitely a try.
I agree with you 100%. Video cannot convey the feeling you get from actually riding the wave with a foil without the kites power. I cannot speak for others, but I want to be able to ride the waves like I do on my SUP foilboard, wave power only and kite just drifting. I would also love to be able to do more radical cutbacks, and am working on a way to do that without the kite falling out of the sky. Current wave kites do not drift well enough to go full speed on the bottom turn, but eventually the brands will make something that will work for this.

--
Gunnar
Try a BRM Cloud ...... they are so light, they just drift backwards like a feather.
I have. They don't work for me. Same problem as with other kites, but with the added minus of them inverting the Sail when I stall them to keep the kite in the middle of the wind on the wave.

To be clear. I want a kite that I can park and forget about and just rip the wave. I do not want to be actively flying it.

--
Gunnar

bigtone667
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Style: surf, foiling, jumping, lawn mowing
Gear: BRM Cloud D's, Duotone Rebels

North Surfboards, BRM Paipo, Shinn Jackson, Firewire Evo, CrazyFly Doors, Naish Hover 155/130, Naish Thrust Surf XL Foil, Zeeko XXLW Spitfire, Fanatic Aero 1500
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:05 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:29 pm
bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:26 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm


I agree with you 100%. Video cannot convey the feeling you get from actually riding the wave with a foil without the kites power. I cannot speak for others, but I want to be able to ride the waves like I do on my SUP foilboard, wave power only and kite just drifting. I would also love to be able to do more radical cutbacks, and am working on a way to do that without the kite falling out of the sky. Current wave kites do not drift well enough to go full speed on the bottom turn, but eventually the brands will make something that will work for this.

--
Gunnar
Try a BRM Cloud ...... they are so light, they just drift backwards like a feather.
I have. They don't work for me. Same problem as with other kites, but with the added minus of them inverting the Sail when I stall them to keep the kite in the middle of the wind on the wave.

To be clear. I want a kite that I can park and forget about and just rip the wave. I do not want to be actively flying it.

--
Gunnar
The only way I can imagine that working is riding down the line with the wind following you and being slightly stronger than the speed you are travelling on the foil.

But I can certainly appreciate the desire to have the kite not impact any turns or directions you are trying to move. Quite frustrating having the kite pull you away from the face.

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gmb13
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby gmb13 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:15 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:05 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:29 pm
bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:26 pm


Try a BRM Cloud ...... they are so light, they just drift backwards like a feather.
I have. They don't work for me. Same problem as with other kites, but with the added minus of them inverting the Sail when I stall them to keep the kite in the middle of the wind on the wave.

To be clear. I want a kite that I can park and forget about and just rip the wave. I do not want to be actively flying it.

--
Gunnar
The only way I can imagine that working is riding down the line with the wind following you and being slightly stronger than the speed you are travelling on the foil.

But I can certainly appreciate the desire to have the kite not impact any turns or directions you are trying to move. Quite frustrating having the kite pull you away from the face.
Even in those conditions the kite front stalls on fast bottom turns. Maybe in perfect wave conditions with slow long drawn out wave face where I can take my time with the bottom turn, then I can line up more aggressive turns off the top with out stalling out the kites.

--
Gunnar

WH Lithuania
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby WH Lithuania » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:23 pm

I'm betting on Ozone Alpha. Hopefully, it improves wave foil riding as so far it's pretty much cow on the ice trying to manage power from wave and pull from moving kite.

BraCuru
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby BraCuru » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:02 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:57 am
The equipment has evolved a long way since 2013 :-) I for one am happy that it has. All we need now is dedicated wave kites for foils :-)
I felt it in 2013 because of Moses FR425 and FR450. Have to say that these wings are still good kite wave foils.
Wonder to know if anybody could compare them now with the latest designs?

@wave dedicated kites.
Based on my modest experience I would say that inflatables with high AR are the best for wave foiling.
Cabrinha Drifter - I sold it 3 years ago as I could not see any benefits of this design. It was a good kite for waves on a surfboard but not for foilboards.
Quickly found that Apollo was so far the best kite for waves. Shorter lines improve Apollo's performance too. I used to use 17m with Apollo 7 and 5m.
Unfortunately I do not ride waves as much as I'd love. No progress this summer at all. Flat sea.
BTW - foiling friends from my club were sure I lost mind when I told them about it 3 years back.
This year now one uses a dedicated wave kite anymore.

Is anybody here who has similar experiences?

juandesooka
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby juandesooka » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:23 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:29 pm
To be clear. I want a kite that I can park and forget about and just rip the wave. I do not want to be actively flying it.
--
Gunnar
That sounds like the BWS promo line 5 years ago "surf the wave, not the kite". From what I saw, they were the first to aggressively market the "surf kite", with maximum drifting capabilities -- and at the expense of other riding characteristics. Since then, seems every brand has a wave kite that drifts to varying degrees, and BWS has moved towards the mainstream middle ground freeride design.

Cloud seems to be on drifting side of the spectrum, and also at the expense of other aspects (not my cup of tea either). The tiny kite / endless looping thing isn't for me. The trade off has seemed to be that I need a little more kite power than I might otherwise prefer, so that the kite will continue drifting if I am riding swells straight downwind. Too little power and it risks back stalling or overflying. So I am probably 1 size up from the tiny kite crew, though still 1-2 sizes smaller than all the non foilers. ;-)

I'd be curious to know what kites are you using now to ride waves/surf? I am on Ocean Rodeo Roam and BWS Noise Pro, which I find fly quite similar. I demo'd a LF Wow for a bit, really fun forward flying style, but not as good for the drift.

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gmb13
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby gmb13 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:26 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:23 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:29 pm
To be clear. I want a kite that I can park and forget about and just rip the wave. I do not want to be actively flying it.
--
Gunnar
That sounds like the BWS promo line 5 years ago "surf the wave, not the kite". From what I saw, they were the first to aggressively market the "surf kite", with maximum drifting capabilities -- and at the expense of other riding characteristics. Since then, seems every brand has a wave kite that drifts to varying degrees, and BWS has moved towards the mainstream middle ground freeride design.

Cloud seems to be on drifting side of the spectrum, and also at the expense of other aspects (not my cup of tea either). The tiny kite / endless looping thing isn't for me. The trade off has seemed to be that I need a little more kite power than I might otherwise prefer, so that the kite will continue drifting if I am riding swells straight downwind. Too little power and it risks back stalling or overflying. So I am probably 1 size up from the tiny kite crew, though still 1-2 sizes smaller than all the non foilers. ;-)

I'd be curious to know what kites are you using now to ride waves/surf? I am on Ocean Rodeo Roam and BWS Noise Pro, which I find fly quite similar. I demo'd a LF Wow for a bit, really fun forward flying style, but not as good for the drift.
Currently the kite that works the best for me is the HyperlinkV1 7m UL. If it is more windy and more sideshore down the line conditions I use the ReoV5 6m.

--
Gunnar

stevez
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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby stevez » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:58 pm

What is required from the next generation of wave foil kites: Excellent drift, but also the ability to fly for quite long periods under slack lines, without moving out of position. They basically need the ability to glide on their own, without needing lines to keep them in position.

So they need to be like a kite when lines are under tension, and a glider when lines are slack.

Who can come up with a design for that? Is it even achievable?

Of options available today, I find the clouds are pretty good at keeping their position in the under slack lines, and generally recover from slack lines without misbehaving if it's not for too long.
The older c5s, with their boxier low aspect shape may even have done this slightly better than the D's (but are otherwise not as nice to fly).
It's the best of the inflatables that I've tried or seen.
I'd be interested to know how the smart wave foil kites compare.

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Re: Foil - wave riding

Postby Greenturtle » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:23 pm

Im sure kite design for surf drift /slack line glide will continue to improve as it has already quite a bit. However we must remember that this IS Kitesurfing, not surfing. If you want 100% pure wave power only and no focus on the kite whatsoever, then ditch the kite altogether for those sessions and get tow ins or prone surf start them like a boss!


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