Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Switch Labs

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
ZigZag
Medium Poster
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:13 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Switch Labs

Postby ZigZag » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:07 am

Testing a kite bar in the lab is fine and dandy, but it only tells you half the story. Throw in sun, sand and salt water, and an animal that tugs in unexpected ways on the other end of the trim line, and a different picture emerges.

I use a single bar for my 5, 7, and 9 m Method. Over the past 18 months, I have enjoyed 158 sessions (Yes, I keep records). Average session duration is about one hour. Today my trim line snapped. Fortunately I was able to return to the beach because the mini 5th still coupled the chicken loop to the front lines.

The reason for the failure was because the oval hole in the stainless steel block in the bar developed a sharp edge. Not sharp enough to shave with, but enough to shred the trim lines. You can also see semi-circular grooves appearing on the inside of the oval holes. No doubt due to the movement of the trim lines while turning the kite.
1. Broken trim line.jpg
1. Broken trim line.jpg (49.01 KiB) Viewed 749 times
2. Round edges at back of bar.jpg
2. Round edges at back of bar.jpg (46.73 KiB) Viewed 749 times
3. Sharp edge at front of bar.jpg
3. Sharp edge at front of bar.jpg (52.47 KiB) Viewed 749 times
4. Shredded line.jpg
4. Shredded line.jpg (36.84 KiB) Viewed 749 times
5. Semicircular groove in side of oval hole.jpg
5. Semicircular groove in side of oval hole.jpg (52.41 KiB) Viewed 749 times
6. Another view of the sharp edge.jpg
6. Another view of the sharp edge.jpg (49.64 KiB) Viewed 749 times
Bottom line: Inspect your kit regularly, and don't become complacent

User avatar
Hasse
Medium Poster
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Denmark
Favorite Beaches: Agger, Hanstholm
Style: Wave and foil. Little freestyle.
Gear: Slingshot, Peter Lynn, Flysurfer
Location: Klitmøller Denmark
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Re: Switch Labs

Postby Hasse » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:17 am

ZigZag wrote:Testing a kite bar in the lab is fine and dandy, but it only tells you half the story. Throw in sun, sand and salt water, and an animal that tugs in unexpected ways on the other end of the trim line, and a different picture emerges.

I use a single bar for my 5, 7, and 9 m Method. Over the past 18 months, I have enjoyed 158 sessions (Yes, I keep records). Average session duration is about one hour. Today my trim line snapped. Fortunately I was able to return to the beach because the mini 5th still coupled the chicken loop to the front lines.

The reason for the failure was because the oval hole in the stainless steel block in the bar developed a sharp edge. Not sharp enough to shave with, but enough to shred the trim lines. You can also see semi-circular grooves appearing on the inside of the oval holes. No doubt due to the movement of the trim lines while turning the kite.
1. Broken trim line.jpg
2. Round edges at back of bar.jpg
3. Sharp edge at front of bar.jpg
4. Shredded line.jpg
5. Semicircular groove in side of oval hole.jpg
6. Another view of the sharp edge.jpg
Bottom line: Inspect your kit regularly, and don't become complacent
My was ripped off out in the sea, after like 60 sessions.. Lucky I found my kite after 1 weeks....

BigPaul
Frequent Poster
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:54 am
Kiting since: 5
Local Beach: Manchester
Style: Free ride
Gear: North
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Switch Labs

Postby BigPaul » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:48 am

Nice to see a quality thread that has not been trolled :D

Is it possible we are growing up!

Anyway - way to go Switch :thumb:

Tiago1973
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:58 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: Portugal
Style: Freeriding
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Switch Labs

Postby Tiago1973 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:04 pm

guess a difficulty is to simulate the different variables in a lab test; and then to correlate all the raw data results to what actually mean for real life conditions..

Westozzy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2918
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Kiting since: 12
Local Beach: Mandurah
Style: Freeride, wave
Gear: Rebel, Vegas 2012
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Switch Labs

Postby Westozzy » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:30 pm

You have to start with baseline data though first, surely. The real life picture will probably involve more empirical analysis and god forbid even some funky magical statistics. But its a start.

Not that I'm going to go out and buy some switch gear, lol. But I applaud the .....public forum approach to investigative promotion. :D

Rando1994
Medium Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:59 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Tampa bay
Favorite Beaches: East beach at fort desoto
Style: Freeride
Gear: Ozone zephyr, ocean rodeo rise, mako king
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Switch Labs

Postby Rando1994 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:44 pm

The wear pattern on the center hole is pretty telling. You are obviously one of the lucky ones to really get to enjoy serious water time. How ragged were the lines beginning to look prior to failure? Those lines are available from the switch website for something like $16. No good reason to not replace them long before 158 sessions. Likely 300-400 hours? Many manufacturers encase that component in plastic sheathing to minimize the wear on the lines. The most extreme example being Cabrinha, IMHO. And to wrap up the Cab bar set is frustrating for me, with all the bangles, dangles, and doohickeys attached to that system. The Switch system allows for easy and immediate inspection and a very inexpensive and easy replacement of wear items.
As for your worn bar, I would get out my Dremel tool and aggressively buff those edges to smooth and contour them while being sure to not take much material off the structure.
And why not run out and buy Switch? Regular PKRA podiums with Marc Jacobs as a sponsored rider. Tons of blog and forum posts attesting to the aggressive performance and flight characteristics. A responsive customer service arm directly tied to the company. I mean, Felix really cares. And a price point that allows you to sell off your old gear and buy new Switch gear without investing much more than an extra dime.
My first Kite was a leftover 16m LF Havoc. In plastic for $500, complete. Five seasons later Ozone wants $2,250 for a complete 15m edge. You can get a brand new, (Coming very, very, very, very, soon) Switch Nitro 3 16m, complete, for almost exactly HALF the price of the Ozone. And the rest of the major brands are right up there with Ozone. I get brand loyalty, but with prices of most brands nearly double that of Switch, the fact that the guy above got 300-400 hours of high performance riding out of his gear before failure is an astonishing statistic.
Face it guys, it might be a little bit like rocket science to design and build a high performance kite, but by all indications Switch is doing it at least to the same level of quality, design and performance as the other guys. And proving it in the lab and the podium. Ahhh, what else were you looking for?

Tiago1973
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:58 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: Portugal
Style: Freeriding
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Switch Labs

Postby Tiago1973 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:06 pm

Westozzy wrote: But I applaud the .....public forum approach to investigative promotion. :D
Lol


To be honest I’m a bit cynical on this industry R&D, think for the most part is to play a bit with the same old with a different colour and a new bridle, or when something really new is introduced the plan is to follow-up closely on the warranty data

So guess it´s good Switch/others start using some R&D activity as marketing material, it may show their R&D means business and I with all other cynicals are wrong
Future Switch Labs projects - real world numbers for bar pressure, sheeting/steering loads, real and apparent wind velocity, total force, lift vs drag, VMG, turning speed, etc.
Me likes!

User avatar
davesails7
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Virginia Beach
Style: Race
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil
R1V2 11m,15m, 18m
Sonic Race VMG 15m, Sonic2 9m
OR Mako 130x35
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Switch Labs

Postby davesails7 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:22 pm

ZigZag wrote:I use a single bar for my 5, 7, and 9 m Method. Over the past 18 months, I have enjoyed 158 sessions (Yes, I keep records). Average session duration is about one hour. Today my trim line snapped. Fortunately I was able to return to the beach because the mini 5th still coupled the chicken loop to the front lines.
That's a wear item you have to replace. 158 sessions is pretty good. Buy it from Switch, or just buy some line from West Marine for $8.

For the guy that lost his kite, wasn't the leash line still attached to the kite after the trim line broke?

User avatar
davesails7
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Virginia Beach
Style: Race
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil
R1V2 11m,15m, 18m
Sonic Race VMG 15m, Sonic2 9m
OR Mako 130x35
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Switch Labs

Postby davesails7 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:39 pm

Rando1994 wrote:My first Kite was a leftover 16m LF Havoc. In plastic for $500, complete. Five seasons later Ozone wants $2,250 for a complete 15m edge. You can get a brand new, (Coming very, very, very, very, soon) Switch Nitro 3 16m, complete, for almost exactly HALF the price of the Ozone.
Switch kites are a great deal and I really like the direct sales method they are going with, but I don't think "half price" tells the whole story. From what I've seen, the resale value on the switch kites is far worse than any other brand, so you have to factor that in. There was a 10m Nitro II in excellent condition (kite only) on ebay recently that relisted 3 times and never got a bid higher than $180 :o

If you buy the 16m Nitro 3 for around $1200 complete and go to sell it a year later, you'll probably get $500. You'd probably get around $1200 for the used Ozone Edge 15m complete. So one year on the Ozone cost you $1050, one year on the Switch was $700. Get an end of season deal on a 2013 Ozone, and you'd be at the same cost over a year or better.

Hansen Design
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:04 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: Switch Labs

Postby Hansen Design » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:08 pm

@ ZigZag - Wow, you got some use out of that bar! Cool that those Methods are getting well used! Clearly the centerline will get some wear and it is therefor easily and inexpensively replaced. Based on our testing, you can also expect the Controller2 is improved in this regard. Cheers! :thumb:

@ davesails7 - Thanks for the kind comments. Personally, I think speculating on the used market of any product is risky when making a buying decision. It should be based on quality, performance, support and 'bang for the buck.' Based on our lab and on-the-water testing there is also a good chance the Nitro3 (along with the new Controller2 bar) outperforms and outlasts those other kites. What then??? :thumb:


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Blackened, Google [Bot], MSN [Bot], Peter_Frank and 14 guests

cron