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What's the value of a pinhole?

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markchatwin
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What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby markchatwin » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:47 pm

So I got this used, fairly expensive kite and the deal via PayPal with the seller was "in perfect working order with no pin holes, repairs or damage of any kind". However upon close inspection I found a pin hole near the LE and center strut. It's a little frayed and with it's location I would definitely tape it up so it doesn't become a problem. I honestly think the seller didn't know it had it. It's such an almost new kite otherwise. And I had to check the whole kite very carefully to find it.

But it's kind of a bummer to be sportin' that new kite with a piece of tape on it. I was wondering what folks thought a fair kickback would be from the seller. Some amount of money would make it "OK" with me since I am happy with the rest of the kite's condition.

However if I'm about to sell 2 identical kites in the 2nd hand section and one has a pinhole and the other does not I think I would mark the pinhole kite a little less. But how much?

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby Laughingman » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:21 pm

markchatwin wrote:So I got this used, fairly expensive kite and the deal via PayPal with the seller was "in perfect working order with no pin holes, repairs or damage of any kind". However upon close inspection I found a pin hole near the LE and center strut. It's a little frayed and with it's location I would definitely tape it up so it doesn't become a problem. I honestly think the seller didn't know it had it. It's such an almost new kite otherwise. And I had to check the whole kite very carefully to find it.

But it's kind of a bummer to be sportin' that new kite with a piece of tape on it. I was wondering what folks thought a fair kickback would be from the seller. Some amount of money would make it "OK" with me since I am happy with the rest of the kite's condition.

However if I'm about to sell 2 identical kites in the 2nd hand section and one has a pinhole and the other does not I think I would mark the pinhole kite a little less. But how much?
A pin hole in the bladder? or in the canopy?

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby edt » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:50 pm

I would consider a pinhole to take down the price of the kite by $1 or $2 just the cost of the sailtape to fix it. Unless it's in the trailing edge, then I would cut the price of the kite in half because it was caused by wind and sun damage.

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby markchatwin » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:50 pm

Just the canopy...

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby BWD » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:05 pm

Kind of meaningless without lots of high res pics of the whole kite but here goes:
If the pinhole takes it from
"NIB condition" to
" A+ condition except one pinhole"
that pinhole is worth easily $100+.
Could even be worth more.
If condition is merely "excellent" to start with, and kite has been flown 1-10 times, pinhole is probably only worth $25-50 off the price.
Or maybe even less if current year or scarce in the market.
Put another way, kite in great shape with a pinhole might sell for same price, but not sell for a few weeks...
And if the kite has a season or two on it, pinholes really matter little without considering the overall condition.

It's hard to address after the sale though.
I would say live and learn, ask sellers for a close up video or detailed pics next time.
Who's to say the damage didn't occur in shipping, unpacking, or one your first use of the kite?

I have bought a kite that claimed light use and actually had heavy use and a patch repair on the LE. It was a little frustrating, but it was a great kite anyway.
The patch was black on black, hard to see, didn't find it until after a dozen sessions.
There were a couple of unadvertised pinholes too.
I did not really care about them.

The fact that the kite obviously had seen 50+ sessions and had a patch on the LE did bother me though! The result was the canopy frayed in a certain area about a year before it should have.
I could almost include the name of the seller here, out of annoyance.
He's kind of a marginal industry character I guess.

But let bygones, be bygones, right?
The bottom line is the kite still flew great and gave me a few good seasons, for 1/3 less than new, and I bought it during its "current" year.
Still I would have offered about $200-250 less if the condition had been represented honestly.

Oh yeah and come to think of it he refused to use paypal and waited 2 weeks before mailing the kite. That gets your name in here, James.

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby william_rx7 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:40 pm

Don't worry, it won't be the only one in a couple months anyway.
Get over it.

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby markchatwin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:03 am

I've got 5 year old kites with no pinholes in them. I kind of like the looks of them without tape on them... I got no problem putting some tape on the pinhole but I did ask specifically. I asked the seller if there were any pinholes and he said "NO" - kite used "2 times". But I truly feel he didn't inspect it and so he didn't know. Or if he did he might have missed it... If I was the seller and I advertised a perfect kite and a pin hole showed up on the buyer's end I'd offer a token kickback to make things "right"...

William - "Get over it" - I asked for the value of a pinhole not a life lesson...
Last edited by markchatwin on Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby matth » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:10 am

I just grabbed a kite for a great deal. Mint condition with brand new bar. I also found a small pinhole in canopy. Only because I was skunked for about two hours and happen to notice a little light coming though canopy. I am a little on the anal side but a little pin hole was not going to change the great deal I got. Little patch and all is good. I bet if you looked at most kites close enough you would find something.

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby Laughingman » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:28 am

markchatwin wrote:Just the canopy...
Okay but you also say it was frayed a bit... This sounds like a hole not a pin hole... Can you provide a picture? Do you think the seller was aware of it or was it so hard to find only someone as meticulous as you would see it?
I would not use that term when selling a kite personally because every stitch is a pin hole....

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Re: What's the value of a pinhole?

Postby NYKiter » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:05 am

You didnt purchase that 7m REV on ebay did ya?


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