Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Forum for kitesurfers
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm
Kiting since: 99
Local Beach: Space coast Florida 5th street
Favorite Beaches: One block from condo
Style: surfboard strap waves transitions
Gear: Boards quads & tri
Kites19-17-12-10-8-6-5 sqm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby SupaEZ » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:21 pm

Self launched my 5 Rebel yesterday at beach...with my sandbag technique
Sand blowing down the beach like a blizzard....35 mph with gusts to 40
No room for error
My mind ready to let go bar...push way QR...detach myself completely from kite

Those 3 steps are the key to survival....practice it

People should not have death grip on their bars with thumbs clamping the lower part

Practice holding the bar when on land with thumb over the bar like your fingers are doing

Had successful launch..and great time in the crazy water head high waves...for 2 hours

Self landing was difficult without releasing the QR but i was able to....i was so happy

Kite on beach was angled 30-45 degrees no higher to stay safe...after i launched the 5

User avatar
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5549
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish duotone cwb burton ronix rpm ozone
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby edt » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:48 pm

I think this accident is a "two hit". It is a pretty common way to have an accident. Here is how it works. Kiters gets lofted a little bit, he controls the kite. Hits the ground hard. At this point he is stunned, maybe he got hit on the head or maybe he trips, or maybe he lands on his stomach and gets the air knocked out of him. That's the first hit, at this point he loses control of the kite, it loops and that is where the second hit happens, maybe he crashes into a tree, sea wall or parking lot. People like to fly the kite. And it is true modern kites are very easy to fly and control. The problem is once you are on land near dangerous downwind obstacles quit flying the kite, hit the QR.

Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 535
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:10 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby markchatwin » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:38 pm

SupaEZ - not sure that self-launching a 5m in 35-40mph is a poster child for avoiding trouble. While yes you are very good at it there is still risk. Why promote this risk? Why not just do it and keep it to yourself?

Do we want beginners or intermediates reading your post and thinking "Wow that means if no one else is around I can still kite"? Even with all the safety stuff you're advocating, be ready to let go, hit QR, detach, no death grip, there is considerable risk in that crazy wind.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't post about it, this a forum for all things kitesurfing, but perhaps in another thread "Self launching in 35-40mph - how to be as safe as possible, EXPERTS ONLY".

Then start the thread by saying, "Self launching in 35-40mph carries with it considerable risk. But if you have assessed the risks and still desire to go out then here are some things I do to minimize the risk"...

Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:49 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: baja, gorge
Style: erratic to none
Gear: yes, I use gear
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby knotwindy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:32 pm

As much fun as this sport is, it is sometimes hard to remember that is dangerous and unnecessary.
It is not like we are accepting a risk to hunt for food we need for survival. It is a game with a very dangerous toy.
I understand why people who sell gear and teach want to minimize the talk of risk. That is their business and i'm ok with that. As a beginner you need to have a certain attitude to even want to try this silliness and some one to say "sure you can do it".
And those of us who started with 2 line kites with no de-power or releases also say "this is so much safer than it used to be" but what beginners here is " this is safe", not what you actually said.

But remember, even as a beginner, you have CHOSEN to do a dangerous thing and there will be consequences, especially if you rush things or let your attention wander. You need to respect your choice, recognize the danger and accept the responsibility. That kite in your hand can kill you.

would you be so complacent if some one handed you a loaded gun?

Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:58 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: Portugal
Style: Freeriding
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby Tiago1973 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:36 pm

was to write it was not mainly about the QR but about rigging a 12m kite in a 9m weather and use it in a less friendly spot without the proper experience to handle unforeseen events

then just as a quick check had a look on the rated wind range for the kite in question
Rebel rated wing range.JPG
these tables are mostly used by people new to the sport

this shit is plain wrong
Last edited by Tiago1973 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 535
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:10 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby markchatwin » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:25 pm

Agree Tiago. I wonder what North's reasoning is? The low end is about right but the top limit of my 10m Dice acc to North is 30 knots. That's 6m weather... My weight is 75 kg. One day I approached that upper limit, maybe 26 knots, and it was pure craziness. Had to ride the kite almost directly overhead with full depower. Now I could argue I "held it down" and was impressed by it's range and stability that day (17-26 knots) but as a newcomer perusing the North website I'd be thinking "Geez I only need one kite".

Maybe there's a way to restructure those charts and promote safety and correct sizing. I think kite companies would win out in the end if they explained the need to fly within the kite's "meat range" for the utmost safety of the rider. And that multiple kites are really the safest way to approach the sport.

Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:28 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby JGTR » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:32 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
JGTR wrote:Since when did u see instructors teaching riding overpowered with kites that are too big, tricking right next to the beach, dangerous self launching and landing, riding too close to obstacles, riding helmet less, riding too close to other riders..........

Look in the mirror, it's the "expert" or so called "competent" riders that blame everyone else for bad standards yet fail to realise that unless they lead by example nothing will improve.
I don't see the connection between being lofted on the beach and stunting close to shore...

Shore is another term for beach, if you ride regularly close to the shore (or beach) then you are more likely to get lofted on the beach (or shore). Getting lofted on the shore (or beach) is more dangerous than out to sea as there are usually hard objects that you can hit. In addition being a safe distance from the shore (or beach) will give you a safety buffer allowing you more opportunity to activate your QR as more time before you hit a solid object or land.

But that doesn't really matter as my original point wasn't specifically about lofting but general bad behaviour or unsafe riding by most kitesurfer's that instructors always seem to get the blame for.

And before anyone says anything I do all those things, I just don't blame the instructors when things go wrong

User avatar
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Gear: Naish, Epic, F-one, Shinn
Brand Affiliation: Anything that jumps well and fun to fly
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:13 pm

The latest craze at my locals - is for the wakestylers to ride underneath you in the trick zone that everyones lining for... a bit like surf droppins.

If your goin for big air or loops, you do your speed height trajectory calculations - taking in the traffic flow to and from your landing zone as well as wipeout risk assessment with a kite crash... you monitor and know where everyone is behind you and down wind... they race in under you even though they know your gonna jump - but I abort and go round again.

You get used to the same dumb asses male n female who do it - needless to say there have been a few tangle ups or call outs of WTF when there all performing :duel: at maximum silly.

Experienced Kiters with their head stuck up their ass, will by example (as previously said) - teach the noobs bad habbits and get us banned eventually :wink2:

Not much courtesy on the water these days...

User avatar
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:25 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby JS » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:52 pm

Most kiteboarders who've discovered the sport within the last eight years or so wouldn't identify with the historical threat of lofting.

About ten years ago kites were typically 4-line "C" design. Though they didn't look radically different from current equivalent designs, their bar and line configurations were evolving rapidly... until about 2005, after which bar configuration changes became relatively subtle.

Early last decade it was customary to launch a kite unhooked. There were chicken loops but they were considered too dangerous to hook onto harnesses until under way, away from land. There were also normally fixed loops attached to the bars, similar to those on windsurfer booms, for powered riding. Fortunately, depower straps were normally included, but were of limited effectiveness while launching or riding unhooked.

Launching a kite unhooked had a couple of implications:

1. It was impossible to safely launch a particular kite in anywhere near the wind strength possible today.

2. Getting lofted, if confronted with certain conditions, could involve a long, high ride, similar to paragliding. There is/was a video somewhere of such an occurrence (in Maui, I think), lasting the majority of a minute, ending with a (non-fatal) crash into the side of a hill.

User avatar
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 39725
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 322 times

Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging

Postby Toby » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:44 pm

the problem is the lack of education towards danger.
For most schools it is more important to get the people going then them being safe.
Courses should be longer and have more education about safety and weather.
Using the quick release should be first thing to learn, not flying the kite and the wind window stuff.

Do you know how many people launch and land their kite with a board in their hand?
I would say 80% ! That is insane!

Why didn't I get hurt yet launching totally powered? Because I pay attention to distance, no obstacles close by, my hand on the release during landing and launching.
One hand in the center for slowly steering (yes, even with an 18 trimmed slow!).

Just always be prepared for a problem so you can anticipate it and be safe.
Don't just throw up the kite and "I can handle it".

Be safe!!!

Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], gozokiteboarding, Kamikuza, Kau pi kite tarifa, MSN [Bot] and 15 guests