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Attention Rebel Veterans

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windybrit
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby windybrit » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:14 am

NYKiter wrote:I have the manual.
So if I am hearing all this correctly:

Under the Y there is significant slack on the safety line.
Above the Y there is also slack, but it is only a very very tiny amount.
The safety/5th/blue/line is made of segments but is tensioned as one contiguous piece..It needs to always have a little slack in its length always....I don't know how to exactly measure this but by eye perhaps a couple of inches over its 24m length.
If it is under tension it will start to pull the front of the canopy towards you and stall the kite.

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NYKiter
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby NYKiter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:26 am

Yes, I have a complete understanding of the 5th line and how it is loaded above the Y and how it acts as the safety beneath the Y and must be slack beneath the Y. It flew fine and never stalled...just heavy bar pressure. Thanks

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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby sarc » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:28 am

I have the same kite 2009 Rebel 12m it is a very nice kite. No way the bar pressure is too high if kite is set up properly.

I had excessive bar pressure on another Rebel and the problem was 5th line (between the Y split and the kite: this is the critical section for the 5th) was 2cm too short. Bar pressure returned very pleasant after I corrected that. Also, the back lines may be on a knot on the bar leader lines that is too short.

Just FYI the 5th line between Y and the bar should be very slightly slack with kite fully powered. Between Y split and bar the 5th serves no purpose except for emergency release.

To fix your 12m:
Remove kite bridle (front pigtails and 5th line V), wash in warm water and soap, rinse well, stretch, measure and fix length if out of spec (the correct length is printed on the bridle). North bridles DO SHRINK.
Wash your bar and lines in warm water and soap, rinse well, stretch, measure length according to North manual, fix accordingly (ALL LINES reach same length with the bar setting at full power - chicken loop at the bar and depower cleat fully extended)
Add pigtail extension to the 5th if needed (even 1cm makes a difference)

pm me if need more help

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NYKiter
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby NYKiter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:23 am

Pre test ride:
All new lines.
Bar was tuned with all loop ends matching, cleat powered up, bar resting on chicken.
On the bar end steering lines on the middle knots.
Slack below the Y

Post test ride:
I just put the steerings on the last knot at the bar and replaced the Y on the kite with new Y.

Note:
There is variability in the 5th line above the Y because it is threaded through a micro stopper ball resting on a ring. If the ring is tilted it could cause a discrepancy between the front line and 5th line lengths...probably negligible but sarc mentions 2cm being an issue.

Hope this does it!
:jump:

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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby marlboroughman » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Rebel is a hybrid kite that needs tension on the fifth but it has to be just right. 2 cm will make a difference for sure. Once there is too much tension it will fly of the fifth giving you bar pressure and no range. Play with it so the kite flies of the fronts but the leading edge gets support from the fifth as well.

William Munney
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby William Munney » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:48 pm

I have a 2009 Rebel 12m with the noseline mod and a 2008 16m. Bar pressure is not heavy on either one.

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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby Jantrit » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:06 pm

davesails7 wrote:One of my buddies has some 2008 Rebels (9m and 14m) and a 2011 Rebel (12m). He was just telling me the other day how unbearably heavy the bar pressure gets on his 2008 14m when he gets powered. I've never ridden it myself.

I have 2011, 2012, 2013 Rebels and I'd say that the bar pressure is medium, maybe slightly heavier than average. I feel it is definitely less than my 2010 kahoona or the Cab switchblades and crossbows I have flown from various years. Heavier than my Edge 13m which has very low bar pressure. So I'm guessing it's just the way the older ones were, seems like the newer ones have less bar pressure.
Very interested in this thread. My 14m, as mentioned above, has quite heavy pressure where the same bar used with my 12 and 9 is a handful but not overly so. I look at the 9 being a handful because it only comes out to play in high winds.

Given that the same bar (2011) is used on all three kites with only the 14 being crazy bar pressure I'm thinking the 2008 bridle has probably shrunk. Anyone have any numbers for what the lengths should be for the bridle? The lines above and below the split to check them as well?

I'd also suggest to the OP to check for any knots in the 5th line that may shorten it.

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NYKiter
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby NYKiter » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:29 pm

marlboroughman wrote:Rebel is a hybrid kite that needs tension on the fifth but it has to be just right. 2 cm will make a difference for sure. Once there is too much tension it will fly of the fifth giving you bar pressure and no range. Play with it so the kite flies of the fronts but the leading edge gets support from the fifth as well.
I suspect this is the issue...it just seems way too high...I will verify that it is slightly longer than the Y. From a mechanics standpoint I dont see how overloading a 5th center would yield higher bar pressure...but the dynamics may just be over my head... I guess once they are loaded properly the fulcrum point for sheeting in is positioned lower on the kite's LE. Whereas if its overloaded on 5th the fulcrum is higher and there is more kite to pull down? I dunno...
:lostteeth:

windybrit
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby windybrit » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:32 am

marlboroughman wrote:Rebel is a hybrid kite that needs tension on the fifth but it has to be just right. 2 cm will make a difference for sure. Once there is too much tension it will fly of the fifth giving you bar pressure and no range. Play with it so the kite flies of the fronts but the leading edge gets support from the fifth as well.
Interesting, what would be your opinion of the consequences of the 5th being too slack?
I now need to go and tune my (3) Trust 5line bars .... in the 2014 manual there is BTW an interesting Tips and Tricks chapter (6) which explains length and tensioning etc.

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NYKiter
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Re: Attention Rebel Veterans

Postby NYKiter » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:45 am

Good tip, will check this out
:blabla:


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