Kiteforum.com

Laughingman wrote:
Anyhow, are you trying to be funny, trying to discredit me or just being a troll cause your post is neither funny (debatable I suppose) or helpful and it adds no new perspective to the conversation....

To be perfectly clear - yes, i'm finding it funny that somebody who does actually understand that all kite bars are basically interchangeable was refusing to buy kites from one particular company because their current bar is a piece of rubbish when you could've gotten a bar from another company and ride these kites all along.

SupaEZ wrote:I believe it is a great thing that they design and sell bars for their kites

I am a believer in a complete unit.... buy kite with bar and lines..that are made for each other

I like when kites are shipped to customer with the lines already attached to it ready to go

North Rebel has a great Trust bar.....Core Riot XR3 has a great Sensor bar

Are you having cabin fever ? How cold is it ? How much snow do you have ?

Are you going to hit the bars tonight and watch the big New York ball drop at midnight ?

Happy Windy New Year

Absolutely, there are a lot of good bars out there but there is not one I wouldn't change to suit my needs. Not one bar comes with all the features I want and I am sure most people compromise because of the choices out there.

I am at the cottage on the beach on the southern shores of Lake Huron, it is currently -11 degs C or 12 deg F. We have about a foot of snow. Wind is west about 18 knots... No bars tonight... Nice dinner and a quiet evening for us. I don't really like crowds especially crowds of drunk people...

Happy New Year

Having several types of bars helps create Inventiveness.. Just think if we had ONE bar manufac that decided they would make the lines out of some Cheap Crap like Hemp... and the Grip handle out of Sandpaper because it was cheaper. I would not want that. Competition is good. Not making someone choose from ONLY one Choice. That's not FREE Enterprise...

I heard one company SOLD 7000 Bars last year...

Woo Whooo!!!!


Probably more profit than selling the kites.

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Laughingman wrote:

edt wrote:for the same reason movie theaters sell popcorn. profit.

Okay... Then why not make all of the parts more accessible for purchase? I'm sure it is a money maker but if we could reduce the price of bars and change the buyers mentality to only buying one or two bars,the kite companies could sell more kites... Which IMHO will likely be more profitable then having to invest in r&d, mold building, and an entire purchasing line which is not needed to build a kite.

manufacturing has changed since I was a boy. When I was young, when you bought a car, every additional part, air conditioning, power steering, radio, power locks, cruise control, power windows, every single thing was added at the factory after the base model was built so you paid extra.

Today there is so much robotics and mass production that it is cheaper to offer the exact same model car with all the add ons, and if you want a car without air conditioning it costs extra to buy one without.

Even ten years ago you could buy lids from the Thermos company to replace old ones you had lost but a few years ago they quit offering it because for them it was cheaper to manufacture a complete set of both thermos and lid instead of just the lid.

Making separate parts for purchase by the customer is a big expense now for companies, it's cheaper for them to simply make extra bars and then if someone needs a part take apart an already completed bar and take out the part from that.

Companies that like providing parts for their product do it for a lot of reasons, for a car, you need it otherwise the customer would not buy the product because it couldn't be fixed it broke for other companies it's something they do at cost for one reason or another.

I don't pretend to know much about manufacturing I have just noticed this trend away from providing parts direct from the manufacturer and instead providing entire units, and if something breaks you buy a whole new unit instead of fix it with a part.

Laughingman wrote:I don't know why kite companies are still making bars. They are for the most part completely interchangeable. Bars are very customizable and parts are very modular.
The ABC kite is going to perform just as good with the bar they sell along side it as any other bar Why bother having a unique release for every kite brand out there? Why not have one or two companies build a few different types and provide mod kits so you can make the bar work the way you want?

If I were a kite designer I'd want the freedom of being able to design my own bar specs,
some kites require different lengths of pull from the safety to flag correctly . giving you designs (high Y or low Y) some are 5th line. Some work well with a 2 line safety others do not, some big kites do well with REALLY long bars, some can handle a long depower throw others cannot. and remember those old shit bow kites with pulley bars? 2 x the depower, 2 x the turning speed....nice to have those kind of design freedoms, keeps things progressing if you've got an out there idea that needs something special from the bar to make it work.

As for mod kits,most people lack the know how or general technical interest for this kind of operation.....too many people barely understand the concept of how their safety works....Most would screw this type of mod catastrophically...... case in point you've mentioned in a separate thread the handlepass leash attachment for riders who aren't passing the handle.

After trying a north 5 line bar on a naish 5 line kite, it just didn't work right . No matter how much tuning I threw at it. all lines same length both bars. only difference being the Y location....sometimes subtle differences make a huge impact.
Unless I know all subtle things are IDENTICAL, I'll buy the manufacturers bar with the kite.....Once I've got this as a reference then I'll start modding it or making my own kits.

Johnny Rotten wrote:

Laughingman wrote:I don't know why kite companies are still making bars. They are for the most part completely interchangeable. Bars are very customizable and parts are very modular.
The ABC kite is going to perform just as good with the bar they sell along side it as any other bar Why bother having a unique release for every kite brand out there? Why not have one or two companies build a few different types and provide mod kits so you can make the bar work the way you want?

If I were a kite designer I'd want the freedom of being able to design my own bar specs,
some kites require different lengths of pull from the safety to flag correctly . giving you designs (high Y or low Y) some are 5th line. Some work well with a 2 line safety others do not, some big kites do well with REALLY long bars, some can handle a long depower throw others cannot. and remember those old shit bow kites with pulley bars? 2 x the depower, 2 x the turning speed....nice to have those kind of design freedoms, keeps things progressing if you've got an out there idea that needs something special from the bar to make it work.

As for mod kits,most people lack the know how or general technical interest for this kind of operation.....too many people barely understand the concept of how their safety works....Most would screw this type of mod catastrophically...... case in point you've mentioned in a separate thread the handlepass leash attachment for riders who aren't passing the handle.

After trying a north 5 line bar on a naish 5 line kite, it just didn't work right . No matter how much tuning I threw at it. all lines same length both bars. only difference being the Y location....sometimes subtle differences make a huge impact.
Unless I know all subtle things are IDENTICAL, I'll buy the manufacturers bar with the kite.....Once I've got this as a reference then I'll start modding it or making my own kits.

See this is the thing, putting old shit aside. Amount of throw, high v or low v, one line or two line safety, width of bar etc.... all of this is known and can be accommodated. It's just the same parts used in different ways. The kite companies could spec how a bar should be set up and still allow the user to order the bar with the options they want. This is not rocket surgery here.... I bet I could build you a bar that suits you perfectly (provided all the parts are at hand) in about 20 mins. And that would be a one off... If I did it everyday I could get that down... Probably to half or less. Is just making loops and knots... Once you are clear on the specs it's easy.

I think they make them because people buy them...and they sell them for a high price because very many people are willing to pay it. And part of the reason is that many people are unable or unwilling to understand how their kites fly and how to best disable them when needed in an emergency. It just seems easier to buy the bar that's "made for" a certain kite. Great marketing scheme if enough people are willing to fall for it, and currently that seems to be the case. Just one guy's opinion.

loco4viento wrote:I think they make them because people buy them...and they sell them for a high price because very many people are willing to pay it. And part of the reason is that many people are unable or unwilling to understand how their kites fly and how to best disable them when needed in an emergency. It just seems easier to buy the bar that's "made for" a certain kite. Great marketing scheme if enough people are willing to fall for it, and currently that seems to be the case. Just one guy's opinion.

I think your opinion and edt's opinion are spot on. So how do we change it? How do we get the average joe kiter to realize the bar they just spent $500 on is not different then any other bar out there aside for a few minor variations. How do we edumacate the general kiter public that they may want something different but they just don't know what the options are simply because they never asked or were informed...?

what makes you think it would be any cheaper? One manufacturer would mean they would own the market, and charge whatever they like.

i know for one if i was the only bar manufacturer, i would charge high and make lots of profit haha.

most people cant be bothered to make their own bars or change stuff. maybe 5% of people like to DIY stuff and mod it. Theres not the market

bob10 wrote:what makes you think it would be any cheaper? One manufacturer would mean they would own the market, and charge whatever they like.

i know for one if i was the only bar manufacturer, i would charge high and make lots of profit haha.

most people cant be bothered to make their own bars or change stuff. maybe 5% of people like to DIY stuff and mod it. Theres not the market

Well open market will always create competition. All I'm saying is we don't need every kite company designing and distributing their own bars.... It's funny most people would look at a kite and wonder how they can charge so much... I look at the bar and say WTF are you thinking? Seriously $90 to replace a 2013/2014 cab chickenloop assembly... $90