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Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:47 pm

Agree fully with loco4viento :thumb:

The fast and efficient open cell foils, can generate HUGE amounts of power pr m2, some of them.

But also way more difficult to master, thus not really finding use in the broad market :wink:

I remember some of the really powerful small ones, 4-5m2, that could kick ass like you've never seen before !

Such a massive acceleration and power when flown fast, that could pull like you have NEVER experienced :rollgrin:
Have also seen 100kg guys getting tossed around through the air, over the water, back in the days - with these.
Also incredible powerspikes (especially if you dont master it fully), which is both good and bad of course.

But they are WAY more interesting (and difficult) to fly :naughty: - instead of our super boring LEI kites :roll:

Dont use these myself now, as I am mostly into waveriding - but damn some of these kites can REALLY perform, if you can handle them :thumb:

For light wind freerace or lightwind waveboards (not DTL riding, just having fun), I've used 14 and 15m2 LEI (light wind) kites now and then (77kg), but always ditched these again, as I found I could go just as early with a good 12 or 13m2 kite, but without all the downsides !

Off topic ? Hmmm, maybe not, because IMO size is NOT everything, in terms of light wind ability (part of it, but not only)

8) Peter

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby MonkeyAir » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:09 am

Think you nailed it Peter. A bit smaller kite, even for a two hundred pounder like me gets going early with a super efficient, low rocker, high volume and wide tailed surfboard. Wish there were more reasonably priced, good turning super light wind wave foils out there with huge power and depower.... There is that wish list again. The chargers from PL are great when there is some wind but for super light stuff, always wish they would make a grunty closed cell flat foil with depower. They did make the massive charger 2 in a 22m size which one of my friends in Florida swears by. They have so many great flat open celled bridled land kites alongside their arcs. Bugged them about it before but it is about the limited market for water use of foils by the sound of it. Heard a few good wispers about one model of the HQ water kite in 15 m for light wind use and it was to have some depower but like you I am a wave sailing head and need something that turns ok as well. Maybe for the fun not DTL stuff it would be ok and good to travel with....Hmmmmm? Going to check out the new PL open cell snow kites and check bottom end and depower range. Their tube kites rock but for travel and super light stuff, as you know, nothing beats a foil. Really did dig the old waterfoils from back in the day.

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:47 am

How do the Charger2s go on surfboards, MonkeyAir?

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby loco4viento » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:53 am

Hey Monkey Man! Long time no see, but I'm sure glad you remember my pet iguana with the flatus problem. You must remember the light but gusty winds of Bahia Kino. I hope fatherhood is treating you well and you're teaching the young monkey to launch and land kites to help Daddy (and supplement the family income).

I haven't used the HQ kites at all but they are impressive to the eye. The open cell versions have been a big hit with one of my amigos and are similar to the Ozone Mantas (but they leave much less of a hole in your financial world).

You and I know well what an old Peter Lynn Waterfoil can do in light wind. The 3.6 could get a full sized guy upwind in 15mph on a pretty lousy light wind board, and the 5.7 packed a serious punch (more of a beat down if my iguana is gassy).

If I remember correctly, Peter Frank was a Mosquito Pro guy before getting into more user-friendly depower inflatables. Maybe an AR5 or something? That's gotta be 13-14 years ago.

Light wind easily packed travel options are always of great interest to me. A split board and small harness and some kite fabric in a small duffel open up a world of possibilities. A single skin foil or a strutless inflatable design may offer something special for traveling kiters. I'm stalking Roberto to get a demo ride on a Peak someday but that GPS tracker that I had Armin implant in his 9m keeps sending me locations of freezing places. And I'd love to have a chance to add a depower system to an Ozone XXLite for some learning and potential fun (or frustration).

Good to see you online amigo! And also always good to see Peter Frank since the early days on the egroups.

MonkeyAir wrote:Hi Loco
Wow, just had a flash back of threads 15 years old. Have you given the new HQ line of water kites a go? Wonder how the power, turning and bang for buck pan out there.
Great to see you on line.
PS... Loco has been at this a while and rides in a very light wind area. Been there to visit and he does what it takes to get on the water even if only powered by an iguana fart on a hillside about five miles inland of his location.....

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby mattthieu » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 am

ok well, i'm choosing not to reply to all the crap. not worth it. keep on dreaming about old times and i'll keep on riding. who knows, i might get some experience one day, if i try kitesurfing ?????? cause, i for shure never flown a damn kite.

so, one of the only constructive comments here, the HQ 15m closed cell.

tried it, friend of mine has one, nice kite, from my opinion, nice depower, on a relative short bar distance ( word in english missing in my head but you get the idea ). nice feel, and, turns fast. quite as nice to fly as a big inflate. lot's less powerfull then 15m aurora, lot's less fast, but, it's not deseigned for that.
for my use, not light wind enought, but, on 10 ich knots, on the water, i would really have fun in the waves.......

oh, peak is a good kite, dont et me wrong, i mean, it does what it is suposed to do. plug and play flat ( no jumps ) snow ( or land ) moving around of people. impressive work they did .

BUT if you, like me, like to run fast, and jump hight on the same kite when you feel it, when you feel it, hit a ramp, jump over big ditch in the filds and so on, well it does no cut it !

oh, you know what, F...... it, i'm out of this thing. ride on your old dream about little foils riding in the wind and enjoy..........

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby loco4viento » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:52 am

mattthieu wrote: oh, you know what, F...... it, i'm out of this thing. ride on your old dream about little foils riding in the wind and enjoy..........
You're a pretty funny guy, all upset with people who ride modern kites but simply happen to know that light wind riding is possible on some old kites you declare are impossible simply because you don't understand how they work. Nobody is recommending these to you and you probably wouldn't like them (but who knows, maybe you would). But your condescending approach toward people who have experiences that are different than yours is interesting.

I like the discussion not for the negativity but because I'm always looking for alternatives to a big bulky expensive speed as well. It's a great topic for me because my SA-19 is old and I will be looking for the ultimate light wind session saver one of these days. The possibilities from Pansh, Flysurfer, HQ, Ozone and BRM are of great interest to me.

Thanks for the discussion; sorry the historical anecdotes annoy you, but I brought them up to let you know what's possible, even though you were so convinced otherwise.

Have fun

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby mattthieu » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:18 am

To LOCO :

actually, i was about to erase my last post, realised it's a bit heavy for no reason.

not going to, cause, well, i said it and can walk the talk.

but, yeah, ok, i'm a bit on the nervous reactions lately !

so hey, let's all be friends and have fun as you sayed and sorry everyone.

hope we could find something out there thats would do the job, but looks like the new FS speed 4 are going to be WAY ahead again......

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby loco4viento » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:14 am

Hey Matthieu,

All is good and for sure we have no reason to be anything other than friends. We share something pretty cool and it's a great thing to be in touch with friends and strangers all over this crazy (and in many places windy) planet! I've had a great 15 years of this fun and running into people all over the place (the Americas, Hawaii, Caribbean, Europe, off the coast of Africa) that I already knew from these internet groups.

I will keep reading the info and if you find the great light wind solution I'm looking forward to learning all about it. Great topic. And you're still welcome to try any of my kites (new or old historical relics) if we ever run into each other here, there or somewhere else.

All the best,

John

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby robertovillate » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:22 am

Yeah, no reason to be upset or surprised about different opinions, different experiences, different impressions. Sometimes one kite work great for one persons needs and not for anothers. I am sure Matthieu (and others on this thread) has much more experience with different foils than I do. So contrasting opinions are actually informative and helpful for everyone to understand how this or that kite works.

I brought the Peak into the discussion, more as a bit of a segue to discussing single skin foils coming onto the scene as light wind options. For example today again: light and variable 9- 14 kts, good grippy snow, me on 9m Peak, friends on 16m, 17m 20m inflatables...they stayed on the lake, but I was ascending dunes ripping up the faces and having a blast.

If I did not have my 9m Peak today I most certainly would have been on my 15m Core XR2LW (which is a pretty fast turning kite)...but the advantage I feel with the Peak is that it will hover in almost every situation and I can turn it and flick it quickly and get good pull when I need to get around obstacles or negotiate tricky terrain. Sometimes with a big inflatable, or a big foil, you are pretty committed sometimes when steering the kite, and sometimes that gets you into some trouble...especially where there are hazards that might damage a kite....i hope this is making sense for people....anyway...

When I took the chance and bought these Peaks I was somewhat aware that the "jumping" was not going to impress me. I bought them more for the ascending, light wind performance, easy setup and small pack down...so far very pleased about those features. On top of this I find them to be very stable and problem-free. Plus you can buy 2 Peaks for the price of 1 big inflatable.

If my priorities had been for hangtime I would probably get a Speed3 or 4...and live with the benefits and drawbacks (and cost!) that those kite possess. In fact I would like to have a Speed3 or 4!

I am not sure what would make a single skin foil boost better, but I would bet someone will work on that problem too.

So, again - not trying to hijack the thread - but I think the single skin seems fairly revolutionary and has a lot of potential for many people...and if they make a 12m..man, that will have some power!

(loco - as soon as I have a chance to ride the Peak on water I''ll let you know how it goes...I am as curious as you are...and right now I can't think of why it wouldn't work... other than non-water relaunchable of course.)

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Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind

Postby balugh » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:22 am

It would be interesting if HQ did a bigger Matrixx...although I'm sure the 15m is a decent kite but not big enough to be an ultra light wind machine for bigger folks. I am, however, quite excited about the new closed cell kite from Ozone... Anyone have hard info about the price point for these yet?


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