Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Would you pay for beach access?

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
william_rx7
Medium Poster
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:16 am
Kiting since: 2003
Location: TO
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby william_rx7 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:31 am

One way or another we all pay. It's the invisible hand. There is no free lunch.
"The Invisible Hand" first defined by Adam Smith describes

"competition between buyers and sellers that channels the profit motive of individuals on
both sides of the transaction such that improved products are produced and at lower costs.
This process whereby competition channels ambition toward socially desirable ends comes
out most clearly in The Wealth of Nations"

Love to hear how you think how the "Invisible Hand" applies to paying for beach access.

The economic cliché you're looking for is the "Free Rider Dilemma", but this isn't really applicable either since administration costs of most public beaches are covered by property taxes or through Federal funding in the case of National parks.

If you're going to adopt a pay per use model for park use, and sub-divide it by additional fees based on use, then I assume you also support paid rescue by lifegaurds?

Just swipe your VISA right here on my jet-ski and I'll tow you in? Didn't bring your VISA, sorry, Bub! blub, blub, blub...

User avatar
jakemoore
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1848
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:59 am
Kiting since: 2004
Gear: Foil and 1strut kites.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Oleander
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 82 times
Contact:

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby jakemoore » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:51 pm

Thanks for the lesson in economic cliches.

Near Corpus Christi our National State and Local parks are funded by taxes and entrance or parking fees. One way or another we pay and it doesn't seem to bother people.

There are kite launches here on private property where people pay for access. There are kiters who like to go there and in fact choose those locations above options that don't have an entrance fee. The buyer must be receiving some value to want to pay.

Other people like the no charge launch on the causeway. Hopefully nobody gets dragged over the nearby highway. They pay in risk. The also pay in rotton seaweed smell that gets in the car.

And yes your first responders have expenses too, just as the people who build houses and make kites. Last time I checked, people who ride in an ambulance get a bill. Our pools supply lifeguards, but we pay to enter.

If somebody buys or leases some waterfront land and their profit motive is to charge kite boarders for access you should thank them. They could just as easily build a golf course or a casino. Which would you invest in if you wanted a profit? If you were a government which would you develop to raise the tax base?

User avatar
bay surfer
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:30 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: The Dam Beach
Favorite Beaches: Lake Michigan Beaches, OBX
Gear: Airush, Switch, Pansh, Kites, LF boards, Home Brewed Foils and boards
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Traverse City, MI usa
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby bay surfer » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:46 pm

Feel honored to pay 40$ a year to support Sleeping Bear Lakeshore National park! :thumb:

User avatar
Slappysan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 929
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
Kiting since: 2003
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby Slappysan » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:55 pm

Where we kite during the summer (May-Sept) there is a $160 fee or $20 per use.

We are usually happy to pay though because this gets you a well managed site and it's a very crowded spot so it's important. It's also not a safe spot for things to go wrong so you also get jetski retrieval service for that price.

GregWoj
Medium Poster
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:55 pm
Gear: none
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby GregWoj » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:40 pm

IMO, $2 - $6 day for access is reasonable. $10+ is not. $50-$100 for year round pass is reasonable, anything higher is not IMO. I can see arguments for applying beach use fees, I can see arguments against it. The amount of fee will drive behavior... ones who think its reasonable will pay, ones who don't... will boycott/move on to another location. Everyone has their own value on things.

However, Saildawgs point (I think) is around discrimination of kiters and applying fees only to them and not other water / beach recreators. I have not been to many crowded locations with multiple water/beach recreators mixed in with kiters to debate if kiters take up more space/use than the others to warrant the singled out fees. This would be an interesting public town meeting to sit in on and debate. Seems like when they held this meeting/got feedback... no kiters were present to make an argument against it.

SailDawg: Was there a public town meeting where this was debated/addressed?

User avatar
saildawg
Medium Poster
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:28 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Isla Holbox, Kootenay Lake
Favorite Beaches: Isla Holbox, Hood River, Squamish, Oregon Coast
Style: Freeride
Gear: Slingshot
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: BC, Canada/Mexico
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby saildawg » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:38 am

Some interesting comments have been made, thanks to all posting. Have kiters been included in meetings? Yes but the meetings have been dominated by commercial tour (by boat) operations that have nothing to do with kiters. The majority of posters have been from US of A and Canada. Sure would like to hear more from the rest of the kiting planet. We don't have cars here so no parking needed, well there is my bicycle. There are no outhouses and the beach is owned and protected by the federal government, private ownership of beaches does not exist despite what some might like you to believe. No life guards and the rescue boat is provided by the only kite school. Seems to be purely political and the motivation is unclear.

User avatar
Vin Stefanelli
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:44 am
Kiting since: 2002
Gear: Ozone Frenzy
Naish Shockwave
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Nutley NJ USA #1
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby Vin Stefanelli » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:59 am

my best federal park
has competitive day and yearly rates
(Sandy Hook NJ)
and I pay them sometimes during the 'on' season

otherwise I "Boat" my way in

User avatar
Vin Stefanelli
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:44 am
Kiting since: 2002
Gear: Ozone Frenzy
Naish Shockwave
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Nutley NJ USA #1
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby Vin Stefanelli » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:05 am

whether I kite or not,...

User avatar
samsam
Rare Poster
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:19 am
Kiting since: 2006
Gear: North Wainmann
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby samsam » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:22 am

soul19 wrote:
samsam wrote:I will never pay for beach access but what i would pay for is a limitation of kiters on water.
For example - You get a small flag to tie on your harness and it will cost 5$ per hour. the number of flags will be limited and who ever doesn't have a flag can't go out and kite.
No offense SamSam but that is the worst idea that I have read! If you find that your local kite spot is to busy than go somewhere else! That would decrease the spot by one and aid in your dilemma.

James
Where i live kite is allowed only in specific beaches. In a 1 hour drive all kite beaches are crowded.
Won't you prefer a 2 Hr. session over a 5 Hr. super crowded session ?

The money collected will go for cleaning the beach, making it safer, and maybe for organizing kite events. there are a lot of options for using that money.

User avatar
Laughingman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2958
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:35 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Kettle Point, Mitchell's Bay, Rondeau Bay
Favorite Beaches: Kettle Point, Mitchell's Bay, Rondeau Bay, Long Bay, Cayo Guillermo, La Ventana
Gear: Ocean Rodeo Gen6 Flites 10m, 12m Gen2 Roams 6m and 8m, Cloud D 4.8, 6.2, 8.0, 10.4
Xeon Laluz, Mako Wide 150, Jellyfish Custom surf board quad fin 6', LF Impulse Foil and Kanaha Shapes 37" board
Engine Harness with slider
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Would you pay for beach access?

Postby Laughingman » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:07 pm

samsam wrote:
soul19 wrote:
samsam wrote:I will never pay for beach access but what i would pay for is a limitation of kiters on water.
For example - You get a small flag to tie on your harness and it will cost 5$ per hour. the number of flags will be limited and who ever doesn't have a flag can't go out and kite.
No offense SamSam but that is the worst idea that I have read! If you find that your local kite spot is to busy than go somewhere else! That would decrease the spot by one and aid in your dilemma.

James
Where i live kite is allowed only in specific beaches. In a 1 hour drive all kite beaches are crowded.
Won't you prefer a 2 Hr. session over a 5 Hr. super crowded session ?

The money collected will go for cleaning the beach, making it safer, and maybe for organizing kite events. there are a lot of options for using that money.
I totally disagree with this suggestion of regulating numbers and timed sessions. I hope it never comes to this at my local spots that is for sure.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Eckhardt, Google [Bot], MSN [Bot], tautologies, Yahoo [Bot] and 20 guests