North Dice 2014 10m issue

[BigPaul]

For what it's worth I was using the 4 line bar.

Eree. I don't think (or at least I hope not) Dan was suggesting that I was a beginner. as I've stated numerous times on this forum that I've owned and loved the North Rebel from my first 2009 to 2012 where I bought new kites every year. The only reason I came away from North is that my circumstances changed ( I had a little person) and therefore I could no longer afford the asking price. Being a premadona I like new kit and so have gone with another brand.

That said and back to the Dice. I explained my experience to the retailer that I had borrowed the kite from whom is also a very competent kiter. He had the same experience in regards to no lift and his view of the kite was similar to mine.

It its possible it's a dud. but the wind conditions were perfect. Everyone out was on the same size and boosting well.

Board wise I'm loving my North Whip

Again this is just my experience and not me trying to bash anything as again I find that type of shit very unconstructive.

@ Dan, thanks for the response

[Westozzy]

Hey big Paul, so you had been on the rebel for three years is that right?

Have you owned and ridden any C kites in that time?

Reason I asked is to be honest coming of the rebels, edges, and various delta bow hybrids before this I struggled initially and was asking some questions to the crew. Luckily a local guy too me under his wing and reminded me of some c kite techniques for jumping etc. although it's no fuel, torch etc it does take some getting used to. Took me a month or so, then it clicked.

[BigPaul]

Hi Westozzy

Good question but yes I went on to a Blade Prime for a while, which took a little getting used to but when you got everything right the rewards were excellent. I've also flown the Vegas (but never owned one) and the older style liquid force Hi Fi comp.

I am now on bow kites as I love the easy of use and basic all round ability and this may have effected the first hour or so. But I was out on it all day?

[surfboy1968]

I brought this problem up awhile back with the 9m Dice I had for demo and everyone thought I was smoking something !!!! The kite in its upper wind range had considerable deformation and flew like crap. I tried everything I knew to correct problem and nothing really helped ??? The kite was really nice at the lower end of wind range, smooth and precise. I also flew the Dice 12m and had the same issues in the upper wind range. The kite definitely takes some time to get dialed in. Some people on here thought it was because my weight? 200lbs??? I ride a 142 joke or 139 Jaime TT. Didnt get to demo it in the waves on my surfboard yet . I fly 2014 Evos right now, 12 and 9m and absolutely love the new design.

[windfreak]

That why i always hesitate with the dice ,3 struts in hi winds ,for a heavy rider, not sure.. .He surfboy what about the new evos top end ,i have a 2013 evo 12m which is rock solid (5 struts) and want to buy a 8 or 9m evo 2014 ...Thanks ! ( comparaison between the dice and evo in my other topic would be coool !)

[markchatwin]

Okay I have the Dice 10m and it's still running great. Bought in October I have ridden maybe 12 times in winds up to 30mph. But at my 75kg it is perfection at 20mph. I use it mainly in 17-25mph. Let's put aside a few rogue incidences of maybe a freaky bridle shrinkage or even the wrong bridle.

Not saying these didn't happen either. But let's say we have a perfect "as designed" Dice. Let me ask what windfreak poses.

Wouldn't a Cish kite with 3 struts, 6PSI in the tubes, a heavy rider on a TT riding in winds near, at, or beyond the recommended upper range coiling up to do jumps be destined for failure?

I know some Dice riders have told me to pump it up to 8 PSI. I know gauges are inaccurate but I use them and I go by the factory 6 PSI unless North tell me to do something different. I've been anal enough to use several gauges to make sure that the gauges are at least uniform. But I'm pretty sure I'm sitting around 6-7 PSI.

So at this PSI level I turn the Dice over on the sand it simply is not as rigid as say my 2014 12m Rally or even my 2009 Rev 9m pumped up to 8PSI. And don't forget the Rally has more struts (3 main and 2 smaller) and a direct connection to the kite, i.e. - less bridle no pulleys. The Rev has 5 struts and is a standard SLE with pulleys I believe but it feels more rigid.

Couldn't this kite favor lower weight riders at the recommended wind ranges?

[Dan-at-Duotone]

A few things. First of all the chart for bridle lengths (all lengths in cm):

2014 Dice bridles - Sheet1.pdf

(25.07 KiB) Downloaded 188 times

Second of all, some notes from the designer of the kite:
The Dice has to be pumped up to 6PSI to stabilize the arc. As the kite has a high depower range, the tips are quite loose in terms of structural stiffness. Especially when using the FAST turning option on the back pigtails.

@No Idea (and anyone else who sees the issue he describes with their kite) Ralf also noted that some early prototypes had issues such as you're describing due to errors on the production side, so if you continue to see problems with your kite deforming while in its normal windrange, please get photos to your retailer that shows the problems. Just to reiterate, though, as with any three strut kite, if you're way overpowered and have your depower pulled but are still lit, you are pushing the upper limits of the kite and some deformation is to be expected (even 5-strut kites will start deforming a bit in these conditions). This is not what we're talking about here.

If it helps, I've had nothing but great sessions on my 10m Dice. In fact, my brother had long eschewed the Dice as he is a big-jumping old-school mega-looper, and he'd only ridden the 12 on it's lower end, which he'd felt was not jumping well and that he wasn't able to loop as it wouldn't get around quick enough to catch him. He got one session on the 10m fairly powered up and he loved it. He was way the eff up there and had no problem throwing powered loops and the kite was plenty quick to catch him on the way down.

@fabsph- We've flown the kite on both our 4 and our 5-line bar. Flown on 5 lines there's no tension on the 5th... it's for safety only. However, the higher "Y" on our 5-line bar seems to cause slight changes in the way the kite flies and most people seem to prefer the way it flies on our lower 'Y' 4-line bar. I don't have a whole lot of feedback of the kite on SS or other even lower 'Y' 4-line bars. On top of that, the original poster didn't mention that the kite had been used a lot, so I'm guessing that if there's a problem with his kite, it's a one-off production issue, not a stretching or wear issue. Michelks was complaining of occasional issues such as this only in higher winds, which I assume is due to flying the kites at/over the high end the kite was designed for.

also @fabsph- you mentioned early in this string that you were unhappy with your 10m... Are you experiencing the same issues as No Idea? If so, can you send me photos and/or bring it to your dealer to check out? Again, I've flown the Dice 10m and have had nothing but positive experiences with it. If yours isn't flying right let's try to get it sorted.

@BigPaul- Glad you didn't misread my earlier post as eree did. Clearly I was not implying that you were a beginner. I meant what I said... The Dice flies very differently than the Rebel and even more differently than a bow kite. One is certainly not better than the other and I don't blame you for preferring one or the other. As I said, no kite is made for everyone. Though we've had largely positive feedback from the Dice, your experience and feedback are as valid as any other. People who come from bow-style kites should know that the Dice might not be the right kite for them, so for that alone, thanks for your feedback.

For anyone considering the Dice: I'd recommend you try to line up a demo. This kite tends to do very well at demo events and I'd gladly put it back to back against any other kite out there for freestyle, wakestyle, waves, and even freeriding. Obviously, as we've said, it's not the kite for everyone, but it has a lot to offer many riders out there. Contact your dealer to arrange for a demo. If you're in North America and you are having issues finding a demo, contact me via PM.

Also, as always, feel free to PM me with any questions or complaints.

-Dan

[marlboroughman]

Lets measure those bridles already, the suspense is killing me.

[Michelks]

In my case all bridle lengths are perfect.
My conclusion is that when in fast turning set up, the high end of the size 10 is around 23 knots and not 30 knots.
Thank you Dan.

[keviene]

i think 30knots is a lot for a 10m kite
north kiteranges are quite big, for example my 2010 8 evo it's upper range claim is 33 knots, and i ( 83-85kg 140x42 xride) find it very unpleasent (a little bit dangerous...xd) above 29-30 knots