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BRM control system

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tautologies
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Re: BRM control system

Postby tautologies » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:28 am

What an awesome thread.
I am not too worried that the release are close together.
I think it is more a matter of practice. If you have not put the release into your muscle memory it matters very little where it is, but obviously one should not design something that will cause problems I don't think this is.
I really like tomatkins solution though, because it will pretty much always be at the same place (unless your harness turns around). Would a solution like that have an increased chance for the rope slingshotting and somehow get stuck? increase in wear and tear and therefore accidental release? Either way, surely something that can get solved. :-)

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Re: BRM control system

Postby stringy » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:30 am

I had a chance to try the bar out today in hood river. Greg was here on holiday so he let me take out a 7m cloud 2nd gen kite with the new control bar. Bar is nice and simple. I could see if someone got the bar out of the box with no instructions it might be somewhat challenging to understand how it works. Greg explained it and everything made perfect sense.
Talk about muscle memory, I'm used to holding my chicken loop in the spreader bar during launch totally didn't need to with this system. The no leash required was another nice surprise. I took it out and try putting significant load on it to see how it would perform. Kiteloop after kiteloop this system performed as Greg had intended it to.
A super cool innovation from a guy who's already having the industry scratching their heads! Nice job Greg and BRM

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Re: BRM control system

Postby ronnie » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:10 am

tautologies wrote:What an awesome thread.
I am not too worried that the release are close together.
I think it is more a matter of practice. If you have not put the release into your muscle memory it matters very little where it is, but obviously one should not design something that will cause problems I don't think this is.
I really like tomatkins solution though, because it will pretty much always be at the same place (unless your harness turns around). Would a solution like that have an increased chance for the rope slingshotting and somehow get stuck? increase in wear and tear and therefore accidental release? Either way, surely something that can get solved. :-)
Like I said earlier, it would be very easy to reverse the section of the control system below the ring.

All that is needed to allow you to reverse it is to tie an identical ring onto the centre of the spreader bar, or if you want to keep the spreader bar hook, put one of these links onto the hook and you can reverse the lower section so the Q/R is a push away close to the spreader bar.

The BRM system is something Greg has developed over time, so I expect that like winding the lines onto the bar, the BRM Q/R layout isn't a problem once you get used to using it.
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Re: BRM control system

Postby ronnie » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:16 am

tomatkins wrote:To many kiters, the idea of not having a "stopper ball" might be a deal-breaker. A stopper is handy for a number of reasons, like spinning the bar, tethered (ghost, dog stake, etc) self-launching, etc... so these kiters may demand a stopper device.. or may reject the whole system, along with the clever innovations based on "simplicity"....


BRM control system

viewtopic.php?t=2385243&p=850425

Sooo, for those that want a "stopper", there may be a simple modification to the system, where the "stopper" would be placed on only one of the two power lines, and secured with the "internal to the rope insert", like Naish used, at one time a few years ago. A LARGE ring or specially designed "funnel tube" would be placed at the junction of the two front lines… and this device would be designed so that the stopper could PASS THROUGH, when the "front line safety" system was activevated. This stopper device could be sold separately and easily assembled, by those who want such a device.

I will reawaken the thread "Stoppers… the good, bad and ugly" where a collection of ideas about the subject of "stopper balls" are located, and present my thoughts on this modification:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2374480
A stopper does lose the ability to just let go of the bar and the kite drops from the sky unless it is far enough out. The BRM bar has 72cm of sheeting range and the Cloud will sit on its side on the water or for launching with the bar fully out. I don't know if the same applies to other kites.
The front line that is released is the one that carries the ring, which slides up the other front line, so a stopper could be added to that line which goes slack and would need to be just big enough to hold the bar for unspinning. I don't know of a stopper that is readily available to put on the line, but there may be one.

One of these with a strong enough stainless spring? Or maybe the 5mm Cord Clip at the bottom of the page?
http://www.bouncingrabbit.co.uk/page4.htm
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Re: BRM control system

Postby Europ2 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:37 pm

stringy wrote:I could see if someone got the bar out of the box with no instructions it might be somewhat challenging to understand how it works. Greg explained it and everything made perfect sense.
Congratulations to Greg for such an elegant system.
Actually, I wonder how many people in the world have understood how the system really works.
Doubling the front line length around the central swivel does not modify the front to rear line length difference ... because the bar just follows.
So what's the trick to force the kite to flip upside down?

... A single or both front lines going down by a bar-throw length (72cm) as the bar (thus rear lines) goes up ?

I might be wrong but I haven't seen any diagram or explanation on BRM site. :( :(

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Re: BRM control system

Postby ronnie » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:45 pm

Europ2 wrote:
stringy wrote:I could see if someone got the bar out of the box with no instructions it might be somewhat challenging to understand how it works. Greg explained it and everything made perfect sense.
Congratulations to Greg for such an elegant system.
Actually, I wonder how many people in the world have understood how the system really works.
Doubling the front line length around the central swivel does not modify the front to rear line length difference ... because the bar just follows.
So what's the trick to force the kite to flip upside down?

... A single or both front lines going down by a bar-throw length (72cm) as the bar (thus rear lines) goes up ?

I might be wrong but I haven't seen any diagram or explanation on BRM site. :( :(
The way I think it works is:-

When you operate the push-away release, that line is connected to a ring and one front line. The other front line passes through the ring, so the ring, line, bar and Q/R slide up the other front line. There is no swivel.
Greg has figured out the simplest system that can work.

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Re: BRM control system

Postby NYKiter » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:17 pm

:thumb: great explanation...was wondering about this - very simple.

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Re: BRM control system

Postby TomW » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:35 pm

Interesting low-tech approach.
Ive been thinking how to teach my 9 yr boy how to kite. I'm quite concerned about safety and have kited 12 years without incident, but been close to accident if I had not been prepared and reacted quickly and calmly. I dont think my boy would have been able to handle those scenarios.
No way hes gonna release c- loop in pressure situation.

I like the concept of " drop the bar" and kite depowers, with super long depower. Or if he does face plant and holds on in reflex, then drops bar in fall, he gets quick depower.

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Re: BRM control system

Postby Europ2 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:03 pm

ronnie wrote:When you operate the push-away release, that line is connected to a ring and one front line. The other front line passes through the ring, so the ring, line, bar and Q/R slide up the other front line. There is no swivel.
The BRM connection system should look something like that then.
BRM_kite_Bar_diag.jpg
ronnie wrote:Greg has figured out the simplest system that can work.
Just wondering how many brands will be inspired by it.

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Re: BRM control system

Postby genoves » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:25 pm

Where could I buy these "red ball" Quick release system???

rgds

genovés


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