Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

[alpaia]

Hi Valbocustom can you say more ?
Working on a new version of your skull shackle QR ?

[skorc99]

Simple Cl with safety for foil.

[alpaia]

Looks very neat.
How do you avoid the leash wrap around the wichard though ?

[skorc99]

wichard rotates back side, front side -leash goes around Qr and does not wrap.

[Fightsurfer]

Hey,

so I have studied all 93 pages in the high hope there is just "anything" like a collection of all the ideas.
It seems the only thing floating around is the BRS KISS and various Selfbuilds of that, or the Wichard Snap Buckle with some attemps to raise the pull force as it opens quite easily, and the issue of pulling vs pushing.

Thats it.

No magic solution or fairy dusk... mhhhh!

So, let me share smth that wasnt mentioned until now!
https://philipbchase.com/harness-and-qr-upgrades/

It uses a Wichard Trigger Shackle, aswell as two Fids (Cones): So when you pull on either end of the lanyard and grab one cone, the other cone will be forced into the trigger mechanism.
Tadaaaaaa: Wichard mounted to the Spreader Bar but with a Push Release instead of a Pull Release!

What do you think about it?

To me thats the best solution by theorie yet, because you have the Push Feature and the benefit of only 1 Wichard at your harness so you only need cheap rings on the bars. Additionaly, because we are talking about a Wichard, you have high breaking loads compared to many other commercial solutions or like with a Ball Release System.


Greets

[iriejohn]

No Wichards would be the best.

[Fightsurfer]

No Wichards would be the best.

Well, tell us arguments why you think so - or is it just some repetition because of the general "Wichards are bad" attitude that I read so often, which often is not based on personal expirience, and is for most of the time not making a difference between the Pin Release, Trigger Release or Quick Release!

I see only one single problem with a Wichard/Shackle in general, and thats that you have to clean it prior to closing, because sand can jam the mechanism. But this is no safety concern and purely for convenience.
Thats why the Infexion Seatbelt QR seems nice, featuring so wide space so sand does not interfere that easy.


But I stumbled accross another video:
Here some Shackle again. The nose of this one definitly is cleaner than the Wichard Trigger Shackle, but I dont expect some 25-35mm ring to get caught on the nose of a Wichard Trigger Shackle either.
Anyways: This solution is even shorter, and without the swivel it stayes in a fixed position, Gravity helps keeping the Shackle open, and one hand closing should be even easier! Exactly what I wanted.
Instead of a regular ring that is attached to the front lines, you just can use a ball bearing swivel and have the lines untangling!

With a Swivel, you have two eyes aswell, so the Flagout/5th Line can be routed threw the "upper" eye, clearing more space to the Shackle!

[tautologies]

Isn't it also a problem with opening at certain angles? My understanding is from back in the day when a buddy couldn't open his.

I am all for KISS approaches, but sometimes it is just not the best and safest alternative. Appreciate your writeup tho.

[Fightsurfer]

Isn't it also a problem with opening at certain angles? My understanding is from back in the day when a buddy couldn't open his.

Can you please ask him again?

Like mentioned in my previous comment, I guess most of the issues are still left over user reports from the Pin Release Shackles!

The Pin Release Shackles are not designed to open under load (we are talking about 1000daN loads or more), so this is why Users reported alot that they open hard: With just 100kg of body weight, the "not open under load" feature is undermined easily when you pull on them with alot of effort.

That is why everyone went with the Quick Release Wichards.
These variant does not open not into every angle, so this could be the case of your friend: You have to get the wire lever "down" to unleash the hook, so you are limited to ~150° of a circle as pulling direction to somehow move the wire lever down!
This is a minor issue, depending on how you set up the Wichard: If the Quick Release Wichard is connected to the bar, the Pull Tab is facing into a Push-Away direction. In that case I see no issue with it if the user is aware of his gear.
If you mount the Quick Release Wichard to the harness, well than you suffer the issue of a Pull-Movement for opening, without the possability to Push! That for sure can be an issue in the moment of panic if no sufficent muscle memory Pulls in the proper direction.

But like I sayed, this variant can be used perfectly fine mounted to the bar: The major issue with this Wichard variant more or less is that the force to activated the wire trigger is so low, that its too sensitive for some users already.
But that issue can be work-around with a solution like by skorc99 (the mushroom that is connected with some elastic cord to the Wichard, acting as Trigger),
or by rerouting the release-tab threw some other location for more friction or more travel: I have seen mods that just a simple elasticcord added inside the Wichards Hook, with the pull tab lanyard extended and rerouted threw the elastic, the travel of a few millimeters extended to a ~2cm centimeters or nearly an inch.

Anyways: The reason I suggested the Trigger Release Wichard is because they do not suffer any of these mentioned issues! They are designed to open under load, unlike the Pin Release. At the same moment the Trigger is not too sensitive, like with the Quick Release Wichard!
With the modification to add a Lanyard with two Fids/Cones attached, its becoming an ambidextrous solution: You will always be able to use the right or left hand and grab one of both cones. One cone will always face up while the other faces down (for the blind motion of raising your hands along your body to search and grab for the QR).
As the lanyard you use for activating the trigger can be pulled in every direction, it will always pull the cone into the trigger mechanism, I think this solution will always work.

The only downside of the Trigger Release Wichard is that its not available without swivel, like the Quick Release Version would be. So mounting the Trigger Release Wichard to the harness, will be a bit annoying because it enables it to rotate - so one hand operation of attaching the bar maybe requires 0.5seconds longer.
The other downside was already mentioned, as the nose is not as clean as with f.e. the Pin Release Version. But that shouldnt be an issue at all. Worst case is you take some bigger ring for the power lines, so it doesnt catch on the nose of the hook.

With 60g(<2oz) and 2.2kN breaking load, I think the Wichard is still a great option, exp. for cases like Snowkiting!

There even is some Titanium model available ($240...): Consider that Snowkiting is used at Antarctica (environmental reasons), and that the temperatures can drop below -40°C, a temperature where Steel becomes brittle, this may be an option for touring applications even in the commercial sector!

Check out Wichards Website: https://marine.wichard.com/en/stainless ... snap-hooks
And for the sake of fairness: There are other Brands too, like Tylaska - if anyone prefers to get rid of the term Wichard

Greets

[iriejohn]

No Wichards would be the best.

Well, tell us arguments why you think so ...

Reasons why not to use Wichard shackles are laid out earlier in this thread.